Everyday Motion: A podcast for the emerging motion designer

Welcome to the Everyday Motion Podcast, where we guide the emerging motion designer on their way to becoming an everyday motion designer. My name is Kyle Harter, and I'll be your host as I talk with these everyday motion designers. Today, I'm speaking with freelance artist Hannah Churn. Hannah specializes in everything from motion design, to illustration, to art direction, and a bit of design as well.

In my conversation with Hannah, we talk about everything from building community as a creative artist, making time for rest, demystifying the term art direction, and so much more. Now, let's dive in to our conversation with Hannah Churn. Hannah, thank you so much for joining us. Can you, uh, take a second to introduce yourself to the audience?

Hannah Churn: Hi, thank you so much for having me, Kyle. My name is Hannah Churn. I'm a freelancer and based in the Washington DC area, technically Maryland. And yeah, excited to, to be on the show.

EM: Awesome. Thank you so much, Hannah, for hanging out with [00:01:00] us. Can you give us a little bit of your origin story just so we can like set up the scene and dive in from there?

Hannah Churn: Yeah, origin story. I once was a cat and now, um, where did I start? I feel like I had, I sort of have a windy path. I went to school for animation. My focus was 3D character animation because I was not very good at drawing. So that was what my first couple jobs were was primarily doing 3d character animation and then I eventually found my way to a more motion graphics driven studio.

I did that for a while and then jumped into the into the freelancing. And here I am, that's like been, I don't know, a decade plus, it feels cool saying a decade, but I also feel really old saying a decade like,

EM: Oh, I get it. I get it. Cause I used to think when I was first starting out, it's like, Oh, the people with 10 plus years there, they're so much smarter than, and like better than me.

[00:02:00] No, no, no, no. Now that I'm 10 plus years, I'm like. Oh, no, I am not as smart as I thought I was going to be, but yeah, it's kind of like dive into like some of the really good stuff from, you know, maybe earlier on in your career. So, you know, we talked a little bit before this about you coming on the podcast and kind of peeling back some of those layers of, you know, maybe what could have been helpful for this emerging motion designer that this podcast is trying to reach and trying to help.

So if, you know, we're going back to say your first job at, you know, studio company right out of school, can you kind of paint that picture what that was like for you?

Hannah Churn: Yeah, I remember it was a bit of a struggle. I feel that like when I was graduating, I remember applying all these jobs and they all were like junior positions.

And I was like, cool. And they were like, need one to two years of experience. And But I need the job for the one to two years of experience and I just [00:03:00] felt like it was a cycle And I I don't know if this is like still still the case, but it was always really frustrating Coming I feel like out of school and seeing all these jobs and not feeling like you were able to apply to them or getting denied because you didn't meet the the requirements.

So, um, my, my first job out of school was at a startup, which I, I feel like I've learned over my career history that like the smaller the shops and the smaller, like there's pros and cons obviously to everything, but they're a bit easier to get your foot in the door versus like bigger companies. Like I remember.

There's an animator I met at a happy hour and he was so talented He was like in the visual effects industry and trying to get a job at the studio But this studio required a college degree just because they were like a they were like a bigger company and it was frustrating because it's like But he has the skills.

EM: Yeah, really like they wait. So this studio required a [00:04:00]

Hannah Churn: Yeah, I guess studio, maybe studio is the wrong term. Uh, it was like a company that did video production in, in addition. And yeah, they like required a college degree. So that was, yeah. When there's like things like that. So I think being sometimes the startup, they're like, you know, their focus is just like whatever their end product or, or whatnot.

I think they care more about the talent and like what people are able to create coming in versus like, I don't know what school you went to. It's like more of the work versus like your resume.

EM: Totally. Cause I mean, startups are moving like crazy fast, right? So they're looking for people who can just jump in at a train going a thousand miles an hour and just trying to hold on.

Hannah Churn: Yeah. Yeah. The, the, the train I was on was not super fast. It was, uh, it was for making like, Games for the iPad and an iPhone, which at the time that was like 2012, um, when [00:05:00] that was kind of becoming a big thing, uh, just games on the, on the app store. But yeah, I, I did that for maybe a year. So right, right after school, I was, I'm very motivated to not work in retail, which is what my last year I was doing retail part time, you know, to, to pay for, for stuff.

And

EM: sure. So that, so working at retail was your motivation or was a motivation to not to like work at any other place where you could do animation, like kind of put your skillset to the test. So I'm curious, like for the startup that you started your career at, like what, what were some of these feelings that you were, I guess, feeling.

Out the gate, like, you know, I could imagine, you know, any, any person straight out of school, like the early twenties is probably like, uh, imposter syndrome. Oh, I don't know what I'm doing. Like all this stuff. Um, but what, what was your kind of experience with that?

Hannah Churn: Yeah, that's really, that's really [00:06:00] good. I don't think imposter syndrome ever goes away.

Which we can definitely talk about later. Uh, yeah, what were early feelings? I think just sort of feeling relieved because it was like, it was such, it felt like a big struggle of getting A, a job, and then B, getting a job, like, in your focus, you know, I was definitely in the boat with With a lot of people where I was like, I want to work for Disney.

I want to work for Nickelodeon and, you know, after multiple, multiple rejections, it's kind of like, okay, what, what else can I do then? Um, and so, yeah, it was just kind of a relief and a validation that was kind of like, oh, I guess I am good enough to get, to get paid for this. Um, and, and just exciting too, you know, it's kind of like a new, it was, it was all completely new.

I don't think I had really done. Any type of freelance during college. So it was kind of like my first experience of like [00:07:00] being a creative and getting paid to be a creative.

EM: That's a, that's gotta be a pretty validating feeling, right? Like being able to say, Oh, this art that you've chosen to do, you know what?

I'm going to give you dollars in exchange for it.

Hannah Churn: Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't a lot of dollars, but

EM: it was,

Hannah Churn: it was, yeah, it was still kind of like, cool. I can, um, and then I felt like a two, I finally had something to put on my resume. So all of those jobs that were like, you need the experience. I was like, I'm getting it.

I'll apply to you soon.

EM: It's like, yeah, look out all those companies that needed a one to two years of experience. I'm coming for you. Awesome. So, okay. So you're at the startup. And then, you know, we also discussed that you went from there to, uh, to a nonprofit. Job after that, like, how, how did you, how did you make that jump?

Because I could see a lot [00:08:00] of, you know, new artists coming into the field, you know, getting that first job and saying, Oh, I'm going to stay here for five or 10 years or something like, uh, what kind of led to you making that jump?

Hannah Churn: Part of it was at the work just kind of dried up with the startup. Um, the guy who was.

It was his main thing for a while. And then I think financially kind of became a side thing cause it wasn't, I guess, doing as well as hoped. And so I just kind of stopped getting work. It was sort of quietly, uh, let go, I guess so to say. So that was my, that was a bit of a bit of motivation to find, find a job again.

Cause at that point, you know, I think it had maybe been about a year then. So it was like after school, student loans were starting, uh, payments, rent, uh, uh, offers. Fun adult things. Yep. Um, and yeah, I, again, I feel like I went back to what I did in the, in the beginning where when I didn't want to do retail, I found like [00:09:00] a local networking.

Event, uh, and just started going to that. And again, just going back to that, um, meeting people. And there is a guy that I met there. And at the time when I was starting to look for this next job, he had someone who had sent him an email about the nonprofit job position and he forwarded it on to me. So. He didn't technically work there, but it was kind of like that extension, you know, like of your community, like someone can refer you to this.

And yeah, I got a, I got an interview with them and then eventually got the job.

EM: That's

Hannah Churn: awesome.

EM: So going into that job, how did you feel having that one year of experience under your belt already coming into, into this next one?

Hannah Churn: It felt good. I remember I remember from college them, like, talking about, you know, if, if you don't have a job, like, trying to make any project, make it look like you were like, I was the director on blah, blah, blah, or I [00:10:00] animated for this, and so I felt like I didn't have to, like, I don't know, sort of make up a project I was able to be like, for the last year, I was 3D animator for Making these assets and I was designing backgrounds and like I was able to kind of show like the range of skills that I could do and try to figure out how to apply to the nonprofit job.

EM: Totally. I think that's something interesting to or very interesting that we're going to dive into more when you mentioned 3D and if people were to see your work now, there's zero 3D and that's interesting. What can you say? Uh, you're talking about the 3D, uh, aspect of like, you know, creating assets for that first job.

And that led to you getting the, the second one at this, uh, nonprofit you were at. So you know, if someone was to look at your portfolio now, they could easily see that there's zero 3d, very like illustration heavy, like the art direction is more 2d, uh, you know, very well done of course, [00:11:00] but it's like, Oh, how did this person go from doing more 3d?

Transcribed by https: otter. ai Pixar esque type 3D from like your college showreel to, um, to the style now. So I would love to know, like, how, how did you kind of make that transition?

Hannah Churn: when I was at the non profit, while majority of the work was primarily 3D, there was also a lot of opportunities to do 2D background design, character design.

Um, there was also just a really awesome, um, Creative group there. And I feel like we kind of like challenged each other for, you know, like doing inktober and doing other sort of gesture drawing or life drawing. Um, so I think just not really realizing it, I was drawing a lot more and practicing, um, and just kind of got better over time and.

Then I, I've always loved drawing. It was just in college. I just, it was recommended to me that my skills weren't strong enough that I would be able to get a job. And I, [00:12:00] I do agree. Like I look at back at those drawings and I was like, yeah, that would have been a lot harder path, um, to go than, than the 3d one.

So, uh, I feel like the 3d kind of gave me especially foundation principles for animation without having to focus on like the solid drawing skills and kind of doing that separately.

EM: Interesting, because I could see that being such a challenge or a common challenge for artists in their first couple of jobs, you know, when they're really trying to get those, that experience of, you know, trying to learn all of the tools that they think they have to, you know, learn, whether it's cinema, After Effects, Illustrator, you know, and insert any new app.

How did you kind of approach that?

Hannah Churn: Yeah, for the, for the drawing? Yeah, I think it was just like, I just, I just liked it. I could enjoy it. It wasn't as technical as, 3D, like, I think that's the one thing that has sort of pushed me away from 3D, even now that I'm just like, uh, Oh, I guess after effects, you're still rendering, but like to see [00:13:00] your final thing in 3D, like, it's like setting up your scene, setting up your lighting, setting up your camera, rendering it.

If you're doing textures, are you having to unwrap? Are you having to rig? Like, there was just so many things that you had to do in 3D for your output. And obviously like there's places that have teams that like, you can kind of find your niche, but just drawing and just doing 2d felt like I was just kind of breaking free.

So it was like technical, like hurdles that I felt I was always running into. Um, and I just had a lot more control with, with drawing.

EM: Yeah. And like you said, the rendering is a lot faster than a drawing than it is in three. Okay. So that kind of leads me to like the next thought that I had is, you know, how did you kind of then get into like after effects and like learning that tool set?

Hannah Churn: Yeah. Um, again, I feel like the reason I've like jumped from jobs is [00:14:00] just like, I don't know, Dissolved or whatnot, but like, unfortunately there was a really big layoff, uh, the nonprofit that I was at. And, um, pretty much 90 percent of our creative team was let go. Uh, it was really sad and I was kept on, I think just cause I was like young and cheap probably.

Um, and it just wasn't, it was no longer fun. Um, you know, I, I miss the, the creative, uh, Group that that was there and so I was kind of venturing again to find the next thing and at the time The last studio that I worked at Duke and Duck they were looking for a motion graphics animator And so I applied and this has a point to After Effects But you know, they were primarily After Effects and I had maybe opened it like two or three times I was at the last job and I remember interviewing with them.

I [00:15:00] knew, I knew them again from like networking events over the years. Um, I had done like a very small freelance project for them once. And so they, I knew that they were like really great people. And I just remember them asking like, you have a lot of 3D, do you do any After Effects? And I was just like, yes.

I just don't have it on my portfolio, but I'll send it to you next week. This is like a Friday or something. And I just spent the whole weekend watching every after effects tutorial and putting together a really bad real. And yeah, so again, it was just like kind of just jumping in and I felt, I think I felt a little bit more confident doing that because again, like the principles and the foundation, you know, like animation principles.

Are going to be the same in a 3d program as they are 2d. It's just like where all the buttons and the things you have to press to get it to look how you want. Um, so I think [00:16:00] that that gave me enough confidence to pretend like I knew what I was doing and I guess It worked enough to get me a job. Um, and then that was the beginning of my my after effects.

EM: Wow And uh, I have to ask like Did you ever tell them this somewhere down the road that you like to fake it until you made it?

Hannah Churn: Yes. I lived in fear for about six months that I was just like, they're going to find out they're going to fire me. I just, why would they hire someone doesn't know what they're doing?

Like, um, but I think I, I loosely brought it up to, to one of my bosses at the time. And he was like, really? And I was like, yeah. But at that point I'd been there for, I don't know, maybe it was like eight months in. And I felt a lot more confident. I had obviously learned a lot more. Um, and I didn't think I was going to lose my job if I told him so.

Uh, he thought it was funny.

EM: Oh, yeah, because that's that's that's amazing. Because at that point, you know, you're a staple of the team and you've obviously proven your [00:17:00] worth to get past the what the 90 day probation probationary period. That's common in a lot of companies. So I mean, if we were to kind of spin that around and maybe You know, maybe like point that in the direction of like, uh, you know, emerging this emerging motion designer that I guess obsessed with and, and like how they're trying to get into the industry, like, would you have any insight to give to them?

It's like how to fake it till you make it. Because there's obviously problematic concerns or situations that could arise like you just obviously showing that you're not able to do the job that you promised you could do. Um,

Hannah Churn: totally. Yeah, I think it's like the fake it till you make it to an extent of like your knowledge.

Like, You know, I don't feel like I would have applied for like maybe like a video film job, even though I've done like editing, if there was anything that involved me having to operate a camera, I know like absolutely zero [00:18:00] about, and like, I'm sure I can watch YouTube videos, but that just, I know, I guess that just feels like a different element that I, I feel I'm able to realize that that is not, maybe that would not be a skill set that I would feel, you know, totally comfortable having someone find out that I didn't know versus like after effects again, it's just a tool and I knew sort of animation in general.

Um, so, which I guess that's sort of hard, I guess, like starting off, but like as an emerging motion designer, just kind of taking stock of like what your skill sets are and if it's just like software base, like, I guess it depends on the project you're getting hired for, but like, we're in an era now where like, there's just endless access to education on, on software and communities that like you can get feedback on.

So I feel if it's a software driven, like [00:19:00] you can totally say, yeah. I know that let me send you my real on Monday

EM: as long as they ask you on a Friday. Yes, yes, yes. And I guess on that note, like kind of going from there and like going maybe like on this timeline of your career, you know, you're coming in to do conduct as a motion graphics artist or I guess animator.

The title was, um, how, how did you go from being a motion graphics animator to art director? Um, Like, what, what did that path kind of look like for you?

Hannah Churn: You know, when I started, uh, Dukie Duck, I think I was their, their second hire. So we were like a team of four. Um, very, very small shop then. And it was so cool to, to be with them over the years and just see, I think at the most, maybe we had was like six or seven.

We had almost 20 people, maybe like between 15 and 20 people at one point is I think the highest amount of people. So it was really cool to see the growth over the years. And then again, I think the smaller [00:20:00] places just allow you more flexibility, um, to kind of, to kind of learn, I think, um, and, and just try, like, just try out a whole bunch of different things.

And so a lot of projects. I was getting the opportunity, you know, not to just do the animation, but to also design the storyboards or like come with a visual style. Um, so I was kind of doing elements that Was in the art direction field. Um, I feel art direction is like always such an odd term sometimes, especially at like smaller shops where it's like you're doing the whole project.

So it's like, did I just art direct myself? Does that count? But yeah, it is just kind of over time. I found. Again, like still kind of going back to the drawing and illustration, I just really enjoyed that part, um, a lot more. And as [00:21:00] we grew, there was sort of opportunities for, for roles to be more, um, specific.

Uh, so I was able to kind of change into that. That art director position,

EM: that's awesome. And cause I, I agree with you. I think the art director term can get kind of convoluted. Cause it's like, are you only just telling people how to do the art or what to do with the art? Or it's like, if you were actually doing the art, are you.

Art director, from your perspective, what, who is someone is an art director?

Hannah Churn: That's a good question. I don't, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if my answer might be like the same for everyone, but I, I think in a sense, if you, even if it's just you, if you are like coming up with the foundation or the blueprint sort of for, for the project, Design style for the art style, like what the visual style is going to look like.

Um, I feel that [00:22:00] like you are, you're sort of doing art direction because you're giving direction to the style, to the art of, of how it's going to look paired with this, the story that's being told. Um, I think it is definitely a little bit different when you're managing a larger team because then you're, Not only kind of having that vision, but you're having to make sure everyone else is kind of on the same page, um, kind of helping people navigate that.

So there's like kind of different levels of it.

EM: Yeah, I get that. Because when I. I guess was getting more into animation and splitting from, uh, video editing. I was working with art directors and I didn't actually know what they did other than telling, telling me what to do. Uh, I got brought in cause I knew after effects to it, to an extent.

So like hearing you say that, like that, that clears a lot of things up for say 26 year old Kyle or 25 year old Kyle who didn't know much about animation. About what was going on, and I feel like that could clear it up for a [00:23:00] lot of people who might be new to this because I mean, I don't know if you've probably seen it around the internet before, but there's probably kids like in there, you know, who are in college, the early 20s or late teens who are identifying as art directors, and I'm not the rulemaker on who on who gets to be what, but I feel like it's between that and creative director are just definitely terms that can get tossed around.

Hannah Churn: Totally. Yeah. I think there's definitely an element of like being able to like lead the project. And like, there are definitely people who are fresh out of school or, you know, newer to the industry who are definitely, you know, capable of doing that. I, I agree. I don't know if there should be like some, some gatekeeper role when I was at Tukaduk.

Um, one of the. When I was there, we, we hired a more junior designer. Um, and she was just absolutely amazing and like easily took to directing projects and leading projects. And like, I just think I was like, gosh, when I was her [00:24:00] age, like I would not have been able to do that. So there's definitely. I think people who have that, I think there's also sometimes the thought that you're like, Oh, well, because I'm leading it, I am automatically this title, which I, I guess can be true, but I think it's just like, how are you carrying the project?

How are you leading it? And kind of using that to figure out if you're being a director, it's all just words. That's what I like to say. I just draw pictures. I make cool art. It's just like, take down the Structure hierarchy. I'm a director.

EM: I love it. Like, I, I see what you're saying to in that. Um, you know, sure.

At the end of the day, like we get to make some cool shit, we get to make some cool art, but you speaking to the ability to lead the creative and like lead the project. I think there's like the aspect of what you're speaking to of leading the creative, but also leading the creatives like the people.

Hannah Churn: Yeah.

And I think also just like leading the, um, The, the client too. I think that's another, I think that [00:25:00] sometimes can draw the line kind of, of if there's maybe someone who's newer to it, like how they handle the client interaction, the client feedback, like there's going to be times where you pitch stuff and the client's like, I don't like it and it's like, Oh, or, you know, there's maybe some mark or some frame that's still not hitting the story.

Right. And the client keeps coming back. And so I think it's being able to problem solve. Yeah. As you know as well and being able to communicate that to the client in a way that makes them sort of still feel like the project is going smoothly versus like internally i'm sure like they might be like i don't know how to fix this

EM: yeah totally and i think we still.

Like experience that till this day, I like, I like to think that we experienced that less often. And then maybe when we were younger, I'm like first starting out, what are some things that you think, say a newer artist, these emerging artists, motion designers, what are some kind of soft skills they can kind of start?

Developing now, [00:26:00] maybe if they're still in school or if they're, you know, in the industry in that first job, what are some of these skills that they can kind of start developing to, they become an art director, creative director or whatever, being able to communicate with clients and also help lead creative at the same time.

Hannah Churn: Being able to Confidently communicate what you want to talk about There's going to be sort of a difference if somebody who's coming in and they're saying, you know, um, well we could just Maybe well, maybe what if we you know versus like I think that we Need to change this scene because of X, Y, Z.

Having those kind of public speaking moments or like talking in front of people helps sort of give. Confidence.

EM: I like how you speak to the fact that having a reason for what you're saying, or, you know, idea that you're suggesting, um, I think it is common for the newer artists to easily say, Oh, I did this just because it looks cool.

I'm guilty of that.

Hannah Churn: Oh, yeah, I know. I always feel like I'm, I, using the [00:27:00] thesaurus is another thing. I constantly have the thesaurus tab open up. Like, what's another word for cool? Even using, I know chat AI is sort of controversial, but like, I use chat GPT a lot to help me with like finding better work choices, um, to, to improve my vocabulary.

Yeah, it just sort of like, I guess, sort of soft, like writing, writing skills is, this may be another one. Like if you're doing pitch decks or like through email, um, Just having, like you said, that ability to, to say why you're making a decision on something versus I like it.

EM: Yeah, no, totally. And so thinking of those like soft skills that, that helps, you know, these artists to like develop like early on in their career, like learning how to communicate, maybe finding some different words, whether it's a, Chat GPT or, or just finding these pathways to explain your reasoning.

And I think that's a skill that it just takes time

Hannah Churn: experience. I think that's, [00:28:00] you know, I think about like the, one of the first meetings I was on at Duke a duck and I was just terrified. I don't like that. I talked the whole time. I just sat there like awkward and quiet, even though I was like doing most of the project.

Um, I just didn't know what to say. And then. I remember later on, towards the end, we had one of our, um, uh, like newer producers, sort of, and she came to a meeting, and our boss wasn't able to come, so it was just me and her, and I ended up kind of leading a lot of the meeting, and she was like, wow, I would not have been able to do that, and I was like, oh, it's just, I know, you know, this is like, I don't know, you're five or six, I know what to do now, but I think, yeah, experience.

Makes things a lot easier.

EM: Yeah. So Hannah, on the, uh, the heels of those questions, like getting your, like getting your reps in and like really learning how to develop these skills within like these like soft skills and communication skills within a company, um, kind of like looking at a bigger picture, uh, or I guess aerial view of like your time at Duke and Duck, uh, since [00:29:00] that was like your longest stint at like a, at one spot at this point in your career.

Was there like a specific project or a moment? That they just kind of like flip the switch and you, and you just, you kind of realize like, Oh, I got this, like, I'm actually like bad ass and, you know, can, you know, push off maybe some of that imposter syndrome for, for a little bit, like what, any kind of moments like that stick out for you?

Hannah Churn: Yeah, I think one of them was, I was still, I guess, like, technically on paper, an animator, um, but I was still doing a lot of, like, more pre production, sort of, art direction on projects. And, uh, I got to do art direction for the project, um, uh, A Boy Named Gavin, and, um, that was led by, uh, Elyse Kelly, who now is Neon Zoo, um.

We, she worked a contract for Duke and Duck for a little bit on a couple of projects. [00:30:00] And, um, oh yeah, I did like that whole project at the, at the end. I remember like when she was like submitting it to places like, and the credits, it was like, Art Direction, Hannah Churn. And I was like, Whoa, that's me. That had to be an amazing

EM: moment.

Hannah Churn: It was pretty cool. I think it was just sort of one of those things where it's like, Oh, I guess I am, I am doing that. Like That is what I'm doing. Um, and I think that kind of helped give a little bit more, more push into to trying to do more of that. Um, And so, yeah, I think it was just kind of cool to just again, you know, like titles.

I don't know. It's a sort of weird double edged sword. It's like titles are silly. We're all making cool things. But then when you get a title for something, it's kind of cool and validating that you're like, Oh, I am doing the work

EM: awesome. So, you know, this new title you have the past year or so is, you know, you're a freelancer.

So I would love to hear some of the thought process that you kind of went through to making this big jump. [00:31:00] Um, Yeah. You know, especially after being in the industry, uh, as long as you have like. I would assume there has to be quite a bit of thought into it.

Hannah Churn: Yeah. Um, I think a lot of it started from when I was, was at Duke and Duck.

We had an amazing animator, uh, he was working there. And at one point he, he left, uh, he did on the side, he did really cool, um, like films that he made and directed and, and fight choreography. Uh, he was just there. He was talented in like everything that he touched and he decided that he wanted to leave to like pursue that like full time That's like what he loved to do and like, you know, he liked working with us, too But like that other thing was his passion and that's like what he wanted to do.

I just remember thinking That's so cool. And I'm slightly envious, you know, like you're, you're leaving this job. That is a creative job, but like, there's just this other creative element [00:32:00] of you that you just feel you want to fulfill even more and you're just doing it. I just, I've just always thought about, about that.

He did that jump. And so I think, you know, over the years, they just kind of, Thinking of like, yeah, just to, to go and do my own thing. Um, and so I think that was kind of a foundation of, of where it started. Um, and then I think finally, when I did make the jump, I just. You know, I, I love the people that I work with.

I feel that the artist that I am today was so much attributed to, to definitely being at, at Duke and Duck. And, um, I just, I just wanted to try something different. Um, I wanted to, to have that time to really focus on, on my own art and, um, My own projects. Uh, and so I, I made the jump.

EM: That's awesome. Like it's especially to, to do it on your own [00:33:00] terms.

It seems, I mean, I'm sure it's still equally as scary, no matter which way you do it. But, uh, but it seems like, you know, you prepare yourself for this. You probably got a lot of, I would assume you got like a lot of feedback from other people.

Hannah Churn: Yeah, I know. I remember talking to my mom about it and she's like, you want to quit your full paying job.

You want to quit your like stable full time job. A mortgage and a family to go not have a full time job, like, sort of, um, but no, yeah, I, I was so thankful to have a lot of support from, from family and, you know, even the studio and then also just like outreaching to the, the community that I had sort of already been a part of, of like people that I knew who had already done this previously, um, and just kind of like talking to them and getting thoughts and like, What's it like on the other side?

Um, you know, I think it's always this thought of like the grass is greener and you know, after doing it only a [00:34:00] year, like I, I've really enjoyed it, but I think there's definitely things that I thought I was like, I'm going to do these things. And it's like, no, it's not, it's different. But, um, yeah, I definitely, I was really thankful to have a good foundation of, of support, um, and a foundation of savings.

I think that's really important. I remember hearing that from a lot of people over the years, just like, okay. If you're going to do that, make sure, you know, you have some financial stability to fall back on.

EM: That's super exciting for that first year. You had a ton of support, probably a ton of like helpful feedback along the way from the community you had before you jumped in.

So now looking back, You know, a year plus into the freelance world. Uh, what, I guess, how has it been compared to like maybe what your expectations were for it? Like, I mean, we'd love to hear some of the good and the bad if you're comfortable sharing, but, um, cause I feel like that sets up the, the real picture for people who are also considering this at some point.[00:35:00]

Hannah Churn: I was like, well, when I'm freelance, I'll have all this time to do those projects that I wasn't able to do when I was full time. Turns out, you still need to pay the bills, which means you need to get the freelance project, so that means you can't work on your personal stuff. So I was kind of like, oh, well, this is kind of back where I started.

Um, but, uh, yeah, I think, you know, the, the one thing that I feel like I've, That has been so good is I think just having the ability to take breaks. Austin Saylor, um, he was on like a, there's this event called creative mornings, um, and he did like a virtual one and he was talking about how, you know, in, in studio life, when you finish a project, you're kind of immediately put back on the next one, or you're like sort of juggling multiple ones.

And for total valid reasons, in a sense that like a studio has overhead costs. And so they kind of always need to. [00:36:00] Be billing projects to make sure that financially they're able to, to pay for everything and everyone. And in freelance, when your project is done, if you want a break, you can take a break.

And like, I just remember listening to his talk when I was full time and it just was like, Oh my gosh, that's so true. And then when I went freelance, I've been really trying, like when a project is done, you know, I really try to make sure I'm taking time off, whether that's like Half a week to a week or even plus, I guess, depending on like whatever my next booking is.

And I think I've just felt so much more like recharged. Um, I just don't feel like I'm mentally having to jump from the next thing to the next thing. Cause like to be creative, I think is. That's a lot of work mentally, like you're just constantly creatively thinking and making like, Oh, wait, how do [00:37:00] I get this frame to go to that frame?

Or like, how do I get this shape to transform into the, like, you're just, your brain is on all the time and when you just have to immediately do that again, I think slowly that's why people just get burnt out.

EM: I think you hit a really good point and like, I definitely applaud you for like. Owning that for yourself and for your, like your mental health as well.

Just to, Hey, I don't care what's going on. I'm taking, you know, whatever time I can give myself. Like they said, if it's like half a week, a few days or a week or two, uh, between projects, cause that, that, I think that is a point that is, I mean, maybe it's talked about a lot in the industry, but maybe not as much as, as maybe I've.

I've seen for myself because I struggle with that so often and I don't know if it's I try not to wear it like a badge of honor, but sometimes it's like addicting to Oh, I got book wrapping up this booking. I was like, Oh, someone else wants me for this one. Oh, then there's this one. Oh, why not stack them?

[00:38:00] Don't do that. Unless you're really desperate for money, don't do it. Uh, but that, that's something I still need to like, take to heart and like prioritize. Cause I, I know at least for myself, I'm coming into that season right now where I'm like, I, I'm just not taking on any, anything extra. I'm kind of coasting a little bit.

Um, and kind of like we were talking about built up savings, so I don't have to worry about it too much. So. Like, where, was that kind of your, um, was that on your mind from the beginning or, or like, did you have to, or is that something a little bit more new that you're, um, I guess, experimenting and prioritizing?

Hannah Churn: Uh, no, that was definitely on my mind from the beginning. Um, and I think, you know, last year I, I kind of like this new idea of like thinking in years of like themes, like what is my theme for the year? Like, not necessarily like. Obviously, we all have goals, like, and things that we want to do and, but like, I don't know, kind of the theme sort of [00:39:00] helped dictate certain decisions.

And so, like, last year, it was like, my theme was rest. It was like, rest and recharge. And I think that helped me a lot. When, like you said, those moments that came up that I was like, I could do both of these. We'll just, you know, evenings. Three weekends and it'll be done. Um, and I think just trying to remind myself of like, no, you don't, you don't need to do it like you only want to do it like financially it would be nice, but it is not like gonna make that big of a deal, I guess, so to say.

And so I, I tried to keep that in mind. Throughout the year, this was the, this was the year to recharge. Cause you know, I think another element of just going freelance is just sort of feeling burnt out and, um, wanting that time to recharge.

EM: That's awesome. Cause I, I feel like you say it so confidently and I wish I had that level of confidence [00:40:00] because there's always, maybe as a freelancer, I'm And maybe you experienced this too.

I feel like there's that like scarcity mindset of, oh shit, if I don't work this next week, no one's ever going to book me again. Um, so I gotta, I gotta take this first one that comes along even though I could use a rest.

Hannah Churn: Yeah, I know. I think that's, I don't know, I guess I'm a little bit maybe more naive because I haven't been doing this as much.

You know, like this, this is my second year and the beginning of it was kind of like, oh, there's no work. This is stressful.

EM: Yeah, I think you raised a really good point there. Cause You know, I think in the freelance community and in my short time in it, there's a, I think that's common theme of like scarcity, especially after, um, like 2023 and the end of 2022, uh, maybe for some people where there was, I guess this thought that there's not going to be much work because I have to take whatever I can.

And I mean, you know, I think you just see it on LinkedIn all the time where, Oh, people are looking for work. They haven't [00:41:00] found client work or something like this. So I could see, uh, at least for myself, that feeds a lot into. Maybe some of my, um, concerns or paranoia are like, Oh, I'm not gonna be able to get a job, but how do you, how do you kind of deal with that when it comes to the whole scarcity mindset?

Hannah Churn: I do, I do believe that there is always going to be work. And I think that if you don't, it's very stressful. And I do understand that, like, that's not the reality. Like it sort of can be like a false belief, but it's kind of like if you tell yourself there will be work. I think that just makes, I don't know, maybe more motivated or just feeling like maybe the projects will come and just having less stress.

Um, I, I think too, just a bit over by my decade plus, just the community that I feel like I've become. I've sort of grown and been a part of that I, I feel like I have a lot of connections of people who, if I'm ever feeling like [00:42:00] super desperate, um, I would be able to lean on for, you know, like helping out to, to look for stuff, but then also just having that community to like help, you know, Just look for projects in general.

And that's how most of my projects last year was, uh, word of mouth or, or through recommendations of people that I knew. Um, so I think that's again, yeah, a bit naive maybe just cause I'm still new to this, but, uh, not totally unconfident because yeah, there, there will be work.

EM: I love that mindset too, because I, from what I, what I take from that, and I think maybe the listeners will take from it too, is, you know, you're not just like following along this like blind belief of, oh, there's going to be work.

So I'm just not going to do anything because work is going to be there. It from what I can imagine from behind the scenes, it's Hey, there's going to be work because I did all these things before it to lead to those opportunities. Like, would that be [00:43:00] fair to assume that's how you're approaching this?

Hannah Churn: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, like I mentioned the first month and a half of this year, there wasn't any work and. I was constantly emailing people, constantly having like virtual chats and hangouts and coffees and updating my portfolio and posting on social media and like, yeah, it's definitely not like I'm just going to wait for the work and it'll come like you still have to keep doing things and like doing that outreach and promoting yourself as, as a freelancer.

So I think maybe that's where I feel okay. Cause I'm like, well, I'm doing this. I'm planting the seeds. Something will grow. She's got to wait.

EM: That waiting can be very, uh, can suck quite a lot sometimes I'd imagine. And, but I really love what you're talking about in the community aspect. I know we've talked about.

But community a lot since like we've known each other and we're part of a few different ones together. How much of an investment would you say that you've put into these communities [00:44:00] and you know, in terms of like time and just like, yeah, I guess probably, I don't know, could be, you could measure in time or just overall effort in terms of like, you know, reaching out to these people and spending time with them.

Hannah Churn: Yeah, that's a good point. Um, I don't know. I don't know if I have like a time number. I don't know if I think of it. As much I know we've talked about like when you when you are like growing your community not to think of it in a transactional approach For sure to more like, you know You really want to get to know someone because they make cool work or maybe like you have a similar skill And I think just personally i've just always enjoyed Connecting with people like that was What I first started doing when I graduated college, like I was terrified when I like going to networking events, like talking to somebody was the bottom of my list.

I did not know. I did not want to do that. But then now over time, like I just I love it. I love meeting new people. I love being able to be like, Oh, you know, so and so, they do this thing. You guys should meet like, I [00:45:00] kind of like being the like matchmaker too. I think it's always really fun in terms of like animation.

EM: And you're great at it too. I had dash bash. I saw you like the way you would, uh, like work on like introducing people to groups. Uh, if you can tell that someone might've been a little bit more shy or something or introverted, like I feel, I saw you making that effort to like. Oh, hey, here's so and so.

Hannah Churn: Yeah, because I remember being that person coming into the like the circle and like I don't know anyone um, and so I just I don't know when I kind of yeah always, um, Be able to help and connect people and so I think that like stems from like I just enjoy I just enjoy having calls and like talking with people and um I think I tried to make it like, if I see like there isn't anyone I'm talking to on my calendar this week, I'm like, who can I go talk to?

EM: No, I mean, I think that's a good point too. Cause it's so easy to just like, Oh, have that Oh shit moment where I don't have any work. [00:46:00] Oh, who do I go talk to to go get work? But then it's also like, am I talking, does it become transactional at that point where, yeah. And I think you have a good system in place where it's just a continuous practice.

Hannah Churn: Of

EM: what you're doing. So before we wrap up, what would you suggest these emerging motion designers, uh, kind of maybe think about or take into consideration? When they're trying to, like, say, build their own community.

Hannah Churn: Yeah. How to be this scary? I think just realizing that, like, everyone's pretty cool. We're all, we're all just humans.

I don't know, you know, I think we put people maybe on higher pedestals based on whether that's, like, a social media following or, like, you know, you constantly see them showcased on a certain website or whatnot. But at the end of the day, like, in the motion community, like, Pretty much most people are really cool, really chill people.

Always, always down to talk and just [00:47:00] making sure, you know, that like you're valuing their time. I think if you're like an emerging motion person, you can definitely take advantage of like reaching out to, to people and be like, Hey, you know, maybe there's like a animator you really like, and you're like, I love your work, a new, I would love to get tips from you.

Like, do you have 30 minutes next month or the next couple of weeks to chat? Um, and I think just, yeah, reaching out to people, Whether through their website and email social media. I mean, that's how we met. You just messaged me on instagram.

EM: Oh, yeah, I found your work. And I'm like, because I had a slow January, my first slow January last year in 2023.

And I'm like, shit, I don't have any work. Um, I need to go meet people not for the sake of getting work. I need to meet people to stay sane and not feel not feel alone. So yeah, that was how we met.

Hannah Churn: Yeah. And I mean, from that, like, it's just been so cool. I mean, you helped me get my first freelance project and like the communities that we've been a part of, like, all this, this [00:48:00] podcast that you're doing now, like, it's just, I don't know, it just all started with the like, Hey, my name is Kyle.

I like your work. If you ever want to chat, let me know.

EM: It's actually that easy, right? It's pretty, pretty straightforward that way. Well, Hannah, thank you so much. You've been amazing to talk to. Thank you for sharing a little bit about your career and where you've come from and where you're at today. And thanks for sharing those tips on just how to have a voice and develop your voice in the room and develop some confidence as well, and really making sure that you're taking care of yourself.

Thank you again so much. And before I let you go, where can people find your work? Where can people interact with you?

Hannah Churn: Oh, well, thank you, Kyle. Thank you so much. This has been so fun. I appreciate you having me here and talking through all the cool things. Where to find my work? You can find my work, uh, my portfolio, hannahchurn.

com. And I'm on most of the socials. Um, [00:49:00] Uh, Hanumations, H A N A M A T I O N S.

EM: Thank you so much, Hannah. I'll be sure to link everything in the show notes. And everyone, please feel free to go reach out to Hannah. She is amazing, and she's always down for a chat. Thanks again, Hannah.

Hannah Churn: Thank you so much, Kyle, and thanks for having me.

That was great chatting.

EM: Thank you for listening to our conversation with freelance artist Hannah Churn today. Be sure to check out her work linked in the show notes and don't hesitate to connect with her online. I hope you were able to take something valuable away from our conversation today and relate to it in a way that can help you on your journey to becoming an everyday motion designer.

Thank you for being a fan of the show and please subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can follow the podcast on Instagram at everydaymotion. podcast. Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions, feedback, or any other way that you'd like to support the show. Today's music is brought to you by the artist Cosmonkey, and the song is titled Feel [00:50:00] the Night.

Also, I'd love to give a big shout out to Matthew Johnston for mixing today's episode. And another big shout out to a fellow motion designer, Maddie Alexander, for editing the episode as well. Thank you both so much. This show would not be possible without your help. Thank you once again for tuning in, and we look forward to sharing our next conversation with you.

Now let's kick it to the music.