Everyday Motion: A podcast for the emerging motion designer

EM: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Everyday Motion Podcast, where we guide the emerging motion designer on their way to becoming an everyday motion designer. My name is Kyle Harter, and I'll be your host as I talk with these everyday motion designers. Today, I'm speaking with freelance motion designer, Kenneth hendren. Kenneth and I became friends in 2022, right before we jumped into freelance together.

And today we talk about everything from passion projects, getting into the industry, right when a pandemic happened and trying to navigate your way into the freelance world post studio life. Let's jump into the conversation with Kenneth Hendren. Kenneth, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

Kenneth Hendren: Hey, yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to get into this conversation with you.

EM: Awesome. Thanks, Kenneth. And just quick little background so people can know a little bit more about you. Can you just give us a quick heads up where you're from and maybe a little bit of when you started into the industry?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, um, [00:01:00] I'm located in San Diego, California. And I got my start in the industry in like late 2019, just around when I was graduating college.

EM: Awesome. Sweet. So you've been in the industry for about five years now. And if we were going to look backward a little bit, Because five years wasn't too long ago.

What kind of got you into the industry? Like what kind of sparked that passion on the motion design side?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah. Originally I was going to college as a psychology major and then I switched my major. Towards my junior year to design and in that design major, we were flexible in the sense that we could kind of pick and choose what classes we wanted to take.

And I stumbled upon a kinetic typography class and it was based in After Effects, not too much like design oriented or just kind of pushing around key frames and stuff. And I just thought it was like the coolest thing. And I did some research and I [00:02:00] found out, Hey, you can make this a career. And so I got all pumped and, um, I was like, all right, you know, let me give this a shot.

So, so I just took as many animation courses as I could. At the university I went to, which is university of California Davis. And. Yeah, I just slowly fell in love with design and animation as a whole. And then eventually towards the end of my senior year, we kind of had this position for an animator at school where we would animate for these campaigns and programs for our school.

But also there would be some like Random client work sometimes that was probably, I don't know, free for them or something, because we're just like students knocking this stuff out, you know? Um, so that was like kind of my first taste in the industry. And after that, I decided to give some freelancing a shot after I did my little stint as animator at school.

So very much a [00:03:00] junior and just trying to Scrape by and pick up whatever freelance gigs I can get out of college. And then at the same time, that was like early 2020. And so the world shut down and that was definitely a challenge of trying to launch my career.

EM: Yeah, I'm curious too, like, I think a lot of these like newer motion designers can probably relate to that.

Maybe they've been in the same, in the industry probably the same amount of time you have like officially. You're coming into it, what you said, like 2019, maybe you had like roughly a year ish before the whole world shut down. How did you find that transition, leaving school and trying to enter the, into the industry remote first?

Because like being in person wasn't really a thing.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, completely remote. Yeah. It was interesting. I had an idea in my head of how this would look coming out of college, and that was definitely not the outcome of the world shutting down. [00:04:00] And for me personally, like, I just felt like there weren't too many opportunities for a junior to step in like remotely with some of the companies I was talking to and stuff, or I was trying to land like an internship.

That was just like the goal I had in mind was like, okay, I want to learn from people that are much more talented than I am. And I just couldn't find anything like that, unfortunately. So I was in, I was having, I remember I had some email chains with some studios and they were like, Hey, like your work is cool, but.

We're pausing our internship program for the next year or so because of COVID and this and that. So it was just bad timing to try to learn in the industry. Like I said, I was able to land some freelance gigs. And so I officially was getting like paid to do this, which was really exciting at the same time.

So it wasn't all doom and gloom. It was just, it wasn't an ideal situation, I'd say. Also with the downtime between my freelance gigs, I [00:05:00] was still learning online through stuff like School of Motion to keep my head in the game, so to speak.

EM: Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I think a lot of people could relate to that as well.

You got thrown this crazy scenario that's out of your control with COVID. And, cause you know, you were all set to like, to learn. You're all set to just dive in, get your hands dirty, like learn the straight. But, with this like world shifting, I feel like there's a whole group of motion designers now. That are in that same boat as you right come coming out of school full of ambition, not realizing what's about to happen.

And then in a way you get set back in a way or you could be really set back by not having that face to face interaction in that like in person experience. So you mentioned that you went into freelance because you ran out of options there with the internships. How did you land these freelance gigs without the experience that I guess maybe some people might be looking for?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, I, [00:06:00] thankfully, like, I had a portfolio at the time because of the school work I did, personal projects, and then also through stuff I was doing through School of Motion. So I was able to, like, chop up a reel, and I did a lot of cold email outreach. But also, the connections that I had at school enabled me to land a few gigs actually.

So that actually set me up to continue to add a little bit professional client work into my reels. So like that was my strategy. I was updating my reel like every few weeks to a month just with whatever work I was doing. I could just like add a clip in here. Add a clip in here. And I started having some more like commercial projects in there.

And so that was my strategy. It's like, I didn't need to put a bunch of full on projects on my portfolio. It was just like, can I get a clip from these recent projects, throw it into my reel. And then now I can use that reel to do more cold email outreach to potential [00:07:00] clients and start having conversations.

Yeah. I just left out the fact that Oh, I don't have like internship experience or anything like that. I just rolled with it because I felt confident in my abilities. They say, can you do this? Can you animate that? I said, yes. And I was able to knock it out. So just having the confidence, but also having the ability and then just getting it done, say you're going to do it and the clients will keep coming back.

And that's like how I started off in the industry.

EM: So you're talking about updating this reel constantly, just peppering in new work, really trying to curate it. And what I'm really curious about is, you know, you're putting this out, you had some good connections that you were leveraging, doing all the things a freelancer should.

I would assume like that this had to have bolstered your confidence level a bit without having the like you say quote unquote internship experience or whatever other kind of junior experience you were searching for. So what was going in your head at this time? [00:08:00] I was like, say you were like getting these freelance gigs without maybe having this background that maybe you were told that you needed to have.

Yeah. So I'm curious to hear what was going on there.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah. I'd say like, I definitely gained confidence just knowing that I could work in the industry and I made good enough work for certain clients and stuff like that. So that was super exciting. But in the back of my head, I would always second guess myself and definitely had.

Posture syndrome going on because I just felt like I was out here on my own, I think just doing this, but I still wanted the experience of working on a team of some sort and just kind of learning from other people, other designers, but also just the process of working through a project that's very like structure, there's a schedule, there's deadlines, and like you do that as a freelancer, but being a part of a larger team, and that's just like something that was I knew it existed and doing [00:09:00] it as a freelancer worked out, but I felt like there was still a lot I can learn from just being on an in house team.

And so. That's kind of where my career took me next.

EM: Yeah, awesome. Okay, so you're wrapping up this like freelance scent coming right out of school. And you're looking for this next team, or I guess you're looking for a team environment, right? Because you wanted to, like, did you want to, were you looking to be a part of something?

Like a little bit bigger than yourself, along with obviously the benefits of learning that are going to come with it.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, absolutely. Those were two of the big reasons. The third reason was I just needed more like consistent income too. Yeah,

EM: I'm curious, how, how much were you making in freelance at that time before you went?

Before your next, I don't want to spoil it, but you got a full time gig, which took you out of freelance. So how much were you making though in this freelance time of your life?

Kenneth Hendren: I don't know exactly how much, but I know my rate was very junior. [00:10:00] I was, I think I was charging like 3. 50 per day. It ends. The time between projects was a bit lengthy, I'd say, so it was, like, comfortable for me at the time because my rent wasn't insane or anything like that, like, I was okay, but I was like, okay, I need to make more money if I want to actually save some money and live a more fulfilled life, so that's definitely part of it, um, you know, it's like, I wanted to be on a team, I feel like I wanted to learn more, and then I also wanted to make more consistent money.

EM: Awesome. So I think all of these, I guess, desires that you had, like being part of a team wanting to learn and just improve as an artist, I think those are very relevant thoughts that a lot of emerging motion designers have, I think a lot of us have in different phases of our creative journey. You know, with this in mind, I'm curious because we've mentioned a few times on this podcast already with some other guests.

A lot of us, myself included, have had a failed sense of freelancing to start. [00:11:00] And I use the word failed for me in a way of, I just didn't educate myself and seek out information from other freelancers to do it. But I also see it as a way where I was able to look back and say, I failed at that, but it didn't stop me, I improved over time.

Flipping that on to you, hindsight 2020, now that you're a freelancer yourself, again, Like what mistakes were you making then that you kind of learned from for your current freelance status today?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, great question. What did I do? Right is a better question. I, yeah, I don't know. So I read the Freelance Manifesto from School of Motion back in the day too when I was doing my first freelance stint.

And I'd say like I would do most of those things, but I was doing it very much to the book. Using that like email template and blasting it out to a bunch of people, which is probably not the best way to go about things. Like I wasn't really personalizing emails. I was just like, it's a numbers [00:12:00] game. I just got to get my name out there and then I'm going to get hired.

But I think I failed to realize like how much of freelancing is relationship building and Now, here I am as a freelancer again, and I do have a good amount of repeat clients, and I nurtured those relationships. And I chat with other freelancers and form connections that way as well. So the network building and placing the emphasis on relationships and the quality of your work are things I just had oversight of when I was starting.

I just thought, hey, I can animate. I know what design is and I'll just get hired and that's just not the case. So, yeah, it's a lot more of a human element, I'd say, to be a successful freelancer.

EM: Yeah. How did you come to find that out on your own? Because I think we all know, we see the work that Buck or Oddfellows or whatever creative [00:13:00] entity, like, makes these insane projects.

Like, they, there's that part that I think we can get lost in when we're starting out. Oh, I just want to make really cool shit. But we forget the part of how to actually join those kind of teams, let alone sustain your role on a team like that. So for you, like how, what is this human element you speak of?

What are some of the components or the aspects of the human element that are important to focus on?

Kenneth Hendren: All of the human elements are pretty good. Just being your genuine self, I'd say, can go a long way, right? Like, I think, especially out of college and stuff, I think, I was trying to be, I don't know, too hardcore professional and just being like a robot, but people don't connect with that.

Like, they want to work with someone that they like, someone that they think is cool. At the end of the day, like, we're all out here just trying to make some cool shit, bonding over that, and then, um, I'd say just, like, being A bit more reliable too and like over communicating like I think I was a bit hesitant and [00:14:00] scared to like get on calls and go for feedback or getting feedback in an email chain like made my heart race and it's just that's part of your job.

And yeah, just lacking confidence in that too, but at the end of the day, like, again, we're going back to like the human element. Everyone just wants to have the project succeed. And it's not like a personal dig at you, which I felt like I was taking personal when I was a freelancer for sure. The first time I was a freelancer.

EM: Oh yeah, I can relate to that 110%. I think it took me so long to shake that feeling of, That ego thing that no one ever corrected for me or I never corrected myself I I it took me so long to get that probably until I think right before maybe. Is it right maybe right before we work together our last studio job together class and marker I think was like that I think once I think it's probably once you joined the team and maybe.

Or maybe it was right when I joined [00:15:00] the team, I forget, but I realized, Oh, we're all just like people here and we like to nerd out about all the same shit. And then I think once I realized that, and then I think you and I stayed in touch also doing our like freelancing, I realized, Oh, this is how you navigate this freelance landscape.

And I think I realized too, this is what I was doing wrong all, all before saying all of that, turn this on you a little bit, we're talking about this human element a bit more, say, if you're going back to when you're coming out of school, super fresh into the industry. What would you kind of advise, like, these emerging motion designers now to, like, how would you, I guess, advise them, give them some insights into how to embed that human element into how they talk to people, especially when they're reaching out to hiring managers or they're reaching out to other, maybe other creatives, too?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, that's a good question. At the end of the day, it's going to be [00:16:00] daunting. Like, it's scary. It really is. But like, I didn't do a good job of even reaching out to people in the industry so I can have a conversation with them. So that's like number one fail right there. I could have gained so much insight and been more prepared for all the things I've been talking about if I just talked to someone I was experienced in the industry.

I said I was just trying to do it all on my own. And I think just getting the reps in is huge. You're in college still, or if you're just getting out of college, just reach out to someone in the industry. It doesn't have to be someone that's going to hire you, right? Like, just starting to have those conversations, I feel like you'll realize, Oh, people are really cool here.

Motion design industry is pretty cool, so. Yeah, just like ripping the band aid off, but you don't have to go into it thinking like, wow, like I need to, uh, I need to land a job with this person. And that makes it less intimidating because you're just having a conversation. So that's what I would suggest. I wish I would have done that out of school.

Just having those [00:17:00] casual conversations would have gone a long way and give me some guidance in that first year or two.

EM: For sure, and it's so easy to look back and see. Oh, that was an easy solution to the problems we were having or experiencing. But maybe you felt the same way. I know I did when I was first.

I thought this way is coming out of school. I'm like, oh, I need to get a job now so I can survive or so I can make it in this industry and not have to work at Starbucks for like forever. And because I was using viewing a lot of relationships with people as like transactional and I was able to navigate it.

I couldn't really put pen to paper in that instance of like figuring out what wasn't working. But I think once I started making more friends who are in the same space as me and we just. Like I think we've talked about before, it's like nerding out over the same stuff, being passionate about some of the same stuff and being able to work on stuff together.

That was when I realized, I think, Oh, okay, like it's not about transactional. It's [00:18:00] about just working on a cool shit with your friends and sometimes you get paid to do it, which is a little bit cooler. It's a little bit more of an incentive.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, a hundred percent. Like that's really all it comes down to.

Anyone in the industry, we all have that in common where we just like to make cool shit and we like to nerd out about it. So if all else fails, just reach out and be like, Hey, how'd you do that? I'm feeling nerdy right now. I want to learn about this process.

EM: I love that feeling, feeling nerdy right now. So I need to reach out.

Kenneth Hendren: You can use that as your, your email subject line right there.

EM: Yeah. Hey, that, that's an attention getter. I could see people opening that. I'm going to ask you one last question in this section before we kind of like move on a bit. So you mentioned, you talked about the email headline there. On a serious note, you mentioned about you lacked the personalization earlier in your career.

How would you suggest people, these newer artists, personalize their, I guess, emails or their cold outreach now [00:19:00] and build their approach? Because you've been doing such a stellar job of that as a freelancer. yourself since you and I both jumped into the freelance full time thing around the same time, but you've just been killing it.

So yeah, I would love to hear what you would tell maybe like younger Kenneth about how to get his shit together and do it the right way.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, for sure. Thank you, man. I have, since we started freelancing, what was it, around end of 2022, I've been experimenting with creating loom videos. And if you're not familiar, like loom is, uh, tech product that you can use online that just basically record yourself and you can record your screen as well, like screencasting.

But I would basically just record myself in a loom and, uh, Just give like a 30 second to one minute overview of, Hey, this is me, love your work kind of thing. I'm just kind of making it more personal, showing my face and giving a glimpse of my personality. That's kind of how I've been giving [00:20:00] more of a human element to my work.

Something that might be just a completely cold email or even I do it sometimes for people that have put me on their Rolodex and I will send them a loom being like, Hey, I'm available starting next week or something and just give them a quick update, smile and wave, uh, that sort of thing.

EM: And like in these emails that you send the loom video and this is just one product you could use.

It's very helpful, but putting it out there, like, you know, loom is like a paid feature. Like I guess like past a certain point for the freemium model, but uh, just like putting that out there for the audience. So when you also have this loom video, are you also putting in like a copy of an email of saying the same thing you would say in the loom or what's the balance there, the ratio?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, that's a good question. I'd say I'll say my name a few times, right? So I'll introduce myself again in the loom, but in the email I'd say it's more bare bones I'm like, [00:21:00] hey, if I'm for instance if I'm reaching out to a studio who I never had before I still like to compliment their work because I'm reaching out because I do like their work.

And so I'll compliment their work in the email, briefly leave a link for my portfolio reel, but I can go more in depth in the loom and kind of touch on the project that I mentioned maybe in the email and go a bit more in depth than that. And I can also talk about my experience a bit more in the loom when I'm talking about myself and what I've done as a motion designer.

And yeah, just keep it short and sweet. I'd say like I do like half the time I'm talking about some of their work and it's, you know, how I found them or something like that. And then I'll talk a bit about myself. So just, yeah, a bit of a balance, I'd say. But as far as, you know, email versus Loom, I think there's definitely some, yeah, it shares a balance, I'd say.

EM: No, it's good to hear there's a good balance there too, because it's not just like, Oh, Hey, expecting someone to watch a minute long video when they're [00:22:00] busy day. Right. You have a good little balance going. I guess the last little question I want to ask in there, which I think this is probably one of the more important things that a lot of newer artists, I think, fail at or fail more often at is like the end part of that video.

Or the end part of that, whatever interaction you're trying to have with them, the common problem I see is that they will tend to ask something of the person they're sending them to and asking them in a way where it would actually take quite a lift on the other person's time and bandwidth. For what?

They're probably already a busy person, busy hiring manager, busy artists, whatever. Like I've gotten plenty of emails before where someone has asked, Oh, can you tell me what's wrong with my work? Or is my work good? Can you look at it? Can you do X and X? And I'm like, Okay, I think I had one person asked me more recently.

Oh, what's the state of the motion design industry? I'm like, I don't know. Uh, you tell me [00:23:00] like to go and find for me, but everyone's different. I just, I didn't respond to that email, but all that saying is like, how do you leave that interaction with this person that you're, that you're reaching out to?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah. Uh, that is a super important question and topic to go over because you definitely do not want to ask of anything. Like you're saying, like, you don't want to be like, Hey, uh, when can we get on a zoom call? Okay. Cool. Just let me know, or like, how can I improve my work? People are busy, like you said, if you're reaching out to a producer, creative director or something, they're working on stuff right now.

And now you're asking them a question on top of their day job, it's just, it can add a lot of stress. Even though they're probably genuine, nice people, um, most likely they're just not gonna respond. And so the way that I will leave balloon video, for instance, I just basically thank them for their time, for watching the video, for reading the email, [00:24:00] and wish them a great rest of their week.

And just leave it at that. It's just, I want to emphasize that Hey, I understand you're taking a minute to two minutes out of your day to watch this and read this email. And that's huge. Thanks for just even humoring me to look at these things. And just, yeah, just thank them a lot is all I can really say because yeah, the last thing you want to do is put more things on their plate that they don't need.

EM: Totally. And I think it ties back into that human element that we've been kind of like going over and over again is that you're respecting their time and you're not expecting. Anything out of them really, or at least you're telling them that you're not expecting anything out of them. And I like to think that you structuring that interaction that way, that will, that's more likely going to result in you being top of mind for them.

Should whatever type of project comes through, match up with whatever skill set that you showed in your Reel and your [00:25:00] Loom or Whatever way they're able to interact with you. I feel like that's where I think, I know that's where I've found success for myself and it seems like that's been a repeat case for you too.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, absolutely. I think it goes back to like just being. A genuine human being, be your genuine self and being kind and being thoughtful, being considerate of people's time, um, has definitely paid off and through the method that we've been talking about. Like I've gotten a few clients that have become like my best clients and they say, wow, thanks for doing something different and putting yourself out there.

Like I remembered you because you made a loom for me. So. That's really cool.

EM: Yeah. And then next thing you know, you're going to be invited to their weddings and their kids graduations. It all starts

Kenneth Hendren: from the limb.

EM: Yes. It's a, it's the long game. I love it. Yeah. Awesome. You know, I think, I think we, we wrapped this section of like, I think really nicely.

I think the, this [00:26:00] emerging motion designer that I'm trying to reach with this podcast Is like, they're getting a taste of different experiences from all these different motion designers that I'm talking to. And I think from someone like yourself, who is like newer to the industry and the like, I don't know.

I don't think there's, you obviously make really great work, so I don't think the time in the industry is like, it doesn't necessarily always have to be like a marker of how skilled you are, how good you are, but it just goes to show that, hey, if you focus on the skill set, obviously, like you have, and also on the human side and the connection part.

Then you can have a pretty successful freelance career or full time career too, if that's the way you want to go for like a studio or something. Um, I think we, I think we hit that topic of being humans, learning how to outreach and really learning how to like approach these people who you want to connect with pretty well.

So shifting from there, like, you know, we have this people that we're approaching to the getting paid part, talking about money, uh, and you and I have talked a lot off the [00:27:00] record about this topic. And I think it's important to have a lot of transparency, even from an early, early time in your career. I wish I talked about this more when I was younger, but on the topic of money, I see here in the pre interview questions, your first stipend of a project.

I would love to hear about this and, uh, the lucrative fortune that you made from it.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so money. Yeah. Uh, it's been quite a journey. Let me tell you, um, and yeah, so for the stipend job, kind of touched on that at the beginning of the podcast, it's when I was working at school, they hired me through like a stipend position, which it was like a volunteer, but they could pay me like, A little bit of money every week, which ended up being something like 40 to 60 a week, which you can't live off that.

You definitely can't. So I was also, [00:28:00] Oh yeah, I was working as a Lyft driver as well at the same time. But I mean like the volunteer animation thing, it wasn't a full time thing. It was more part time. So I supplement that with. Driving people at night from the airport and stuff like that to actually make some money that I could pay rent.

But yes, my first intro into motion design, I was making about 40 a week for probably three to six. It was actually six months. Yeah. Six months thing. So I was making 40 a week. Yeah.

EM: Cool. Okay. That's, I mean, I love, thank you for sharing it. Now we know the floor of Kenneth's, uh, rate if you're looking to hire him now.

Um, so, you know, at this point, like a lot of us were fresh out of school. We don't have any money. We're just like scrapping together to see what we can do to pay rent. And so what you're in this freelance space in your life at this time. What were your thoughts around the money, like how and how it intersected with the world of like motion [00:29:00] design?

Uh, did you know how much money I guess there was to be made in a way or what, what kind of like concept did you have of it?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, honestly, like I did do some research back when I was in college to make sure this is a career that I could actually earn a decent living at. So yeah, I did look at like the median salary and stuff.

And I think I read some articles in school emotion to kind of get a sense like, okay, people are making pretty good money. Some people are comfortably making six figures. And stuff. And so it was definitely in my line of sight being like, Hey, this is achievable. I just need to hunker down, learn the skill and I can get there one day.

But yeah, coming out of school and making 40 a week, it was very far down the road from where I was standing. But yeah, I knew there was potential there. And so that was exciting for sure.

EM: Yeah. What was your first exposure to? I at least said you were making like the junior rate [00:30:00] at one point as a freelancer in between different freelance gigs.

I guess maybe the question I'll ask you is like, at this point, after you learned a bit, you've done a bit of research. Did you have a, did you have an understanding of how to price yourself? Like whether you're going for a salary job or even for freelance work?

Kenneth Hendren: I had a general idea. I don't know if I was doing it completely right.

Maybe I lowballed myself. Maybe I was charging too much. And in hindsight, I still don't know the answer straight out of school. But yeah, no, I was charging like a junior rate, day rate for freelancing after my stint as working at UC Davis. I transitioned to just freelancing. And so I was doing a junior rate.

I think it was about like 300 to 350 day. And, and then when I tried to go for my first full time gig, they were like, Oh, what are you expecting to make? Like on staff at the tech company and I was like, Oh, I don't know, 75k. And they're like, okay, we can do that. I'm [00:31:00] like, did I just lowball myself? I don't

EM: know.

Yeah. Were they pretty quick to say, Oh yeah, we can do that. Yeah. Very quick. Yeah. No, I totally get that. Like you like priced yourself into a corner. It probably had to feel like, because that's quite a jump from 40 a week. Give it like a year or two into the industry, you're able to jump up salary like that much, like, what, what did that feel for you?

Like for you, like when you were able to get that first big, are you sure you might've felt like you low balled yourself, but how did that feel to get that first official full time salary as a motion designer?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, it was definitely a huge moment. That was kind of when I was like, okay. Like now I'm officially doing this, you know, before that, like, I think I kind of lacked the confidence and once I landed a salary gig, I'm like, okay, people want me on their team.

I'm actually professional. I feel confident in all of that. So yeah, it was, it was a huge relief, honestly. And I was able to start saving a bit of money and investing a little bit, all these things that I [00:32:00] wasn't able to do for like a decade of my life. So yeah, super exciting times for sure.

EM: Wow. Okay, cool.

Things are going well here on the money train and now we're gonna, we're gonna, cause I know where this train goes a little bit. It's where it was quite a bit. So shifting from the money topic to like trying to overcome these obstacles and the creative industry that a lot of us encounter. You went through a few rounds of layoffs at like subsequent companies.

How did you, yeah, I mean, how did you handle those during that time? I mean, I'm sure it had to be tough.

Kenneth Hendren: Yes, I sure did go through a few layoffs. Um, yeah, it was not easy. That's for dang sure. No one can really prepare you to get laid off from your first salary position. It just kind of hits you like a ton of bricks.

Um, because, you know, you have conversations with your managers and stuff. Like, Hey, like I want to build out the motion design team and the potential here for me to grow to more senior position and all that stuff. It's just, you have those conversations [00:33:00] and then you wake up one day, you're in a meeting with some of your coworkers and you're done.

So it's definitely a tough pill to swallow. So yeah, that happened about. A little over a year after I started at the tech company Shogun, they laid me off as well as a good portion of our, our marketing design team. And then, yeah, just a lot of people were laid off from that company. Unfortunately, I think the majority of the people have been laid off at this point after A good amount of layoff rounds.

Yeah, that was definitely a tough time, but, um, you know, I try to stay positive and not take it personal as much as I could. It was easier said than done though. It's always thinking, uh, what if I would have done this? What if I would have proved that motion design was good for the company? Cause I was the only emotion designer at the tech company.

And I feel like I had a window. To show how much value I could bring. And I was like, Oh, like I just didn't show enough value. That's really not the whole story, right? There's so many reasons why these [00:34:00] layoffs happening and the tech industry was just. Going through something

EM: back

Kenneth Hendren: in that

EM: day and still are like today and I'm going to like just be transparent here too is kind of glad you got laid off.

I know that sounds a little selfish because if you had it, I never would have met you and we wouldn't really be here. I don't think because we met at the next studio that you were working at glass and marker where I was too. Uh, where we got to work together and where we became friends.

Kenneth Hendren: Yep. Absolutely.

It was like a blessing in disguise. I think everything happened the right way, looking back on it. But yeah, in the moment, it was terrifying. But yeah, like you said, if that didn't happen, I would not have met you. And we would not have Became friends and been talking shit on each other's soccer teams for all these years.

That's not gonna stop.

EM: And on the note of like, you know, you were laid off at the tech company and then we were both working together at this other studio [00:35:00] based in California, remote. We hadn't even met each other yet. And we both got furloughed around this, I think within a month of each other. And so we got thrown into this freelance world at the same time.

And it'd be a little nostalgic, but. It's been so nice to, like, have a few of our peers that all of us went kind of get furloughed at the same time because, you know, we've kind of went through it all together. It's, it was just the state of the industry. Everyone was doing layoffs. It wasn't because of our performance or anything, but looking past that in, like, moving forward to the, a lot of us are freelance now, some are full time elsewhere, but I think that kind of, I don't know.

I think we have a sense of like closeness in a way where we've been able to like all stay in touch a little bit and also like relate to each other of not just that shared experience we had, but we also have a shared experience of being in the freelance game ourselves. Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe I'm getting a little weepy, a little nostalgic on it, but of course I could be nostalgic all day.

Maybe I should actually ask you a question about this. So when you got [00:36:00] laid off that first time and probably even the second time too before we both went freelance. You said it's like a tough time, right? There's probably some like thoughts in the ego of like you said, there's something wrong that I not prove myself with layoffs becoming so but becoming like the norm now for a lot of these maybe junior roles and the tech industry or maybe in different parts of the creative industry.

What kind of like, I don't know, partying wisdom or insight could you share with like, say this newer artist that could maybe help them lay power through and maybe find some kind of like silver lining to kind of like take a hold of as they, uh, try to find a way to progress forward.

Kenneth Hendren: So I'd say, like you mentioned, I was like basically laid off once and later in the year I was furloughed, then laid off again with you at Glastonbarker.

And the second time that it happened to me, I was just remember thinking like, Okay, I gotten the experience that I wanted working on these teams and worked at these [00:37:00] companies and it hasn't worked out right. Obviously each company has its own unique experiences and layoffs are never fun, but it's just part of living life moment and I'm sure many people are going through it.

And so. I just said, okay, like that happened twice in one year for me, I believe in the work that I'm doing. I think I have the skillset to really do this correctly. And so I was like, I'm going to bet on myself and just go freelance full time and just really commit to that. And so I think it was a blessing because had I not been going through all that, like I probably would have just stayed on the team because I did enjoy the job.

Right.

EM: I

Kenneth Hendren: think I was learning a lot, but because forced my hand and being like, okay. What's next? Are you going to apply to another full time gig or are you gonna bet on yourself and see how that goes? And I chose option B and I'm glad I did. I think it's been a great decision and I've been enjoying [00:38:00] Freelancing a lot this go around.

It's been great.

EM: Oh, yeah, cuz I think you've grown so much too since then and it's been awesome to witness From both the sideline and in the same arena because we've been able to freelance on a project together in the fall of 2023 and you helped me pay for part of my wedding. So I appreciate it. But you got to bring me onto a project and I kind of saw a little bit of full circle.

Is it the last our studio job together? I think I was leading projects that you were supporting me on. So that was like a really cool experience to just like watch you lead and just to now knowing like the story behind all of this. It's like seeing how that you're able to like just gather that experience gain.

You know, confidence throughout your career to lead you to not just the project we worked on, but to the success you've had as a freelancer, that's got to be a pretty cool thing to just like soak it all up.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, it's definitely been a journey and every step that we've been talking [00:39:00] about today had led me to this point and even working at glass marker like I saw you leading projects, right?

So I'm learning from you, right? I'm always trying to soak in what I can. And yeah, now it's led me to this point in my career where I can kind of be more of a leader, more, uh, you know, just have that experience and kind of push myself in different directions and it wouldn't have been possible without All these connections I've made and just really focusing and honing in and just dedicating so much time in the motion design in general, you know?

EM: Oh yeah, I love all of that and I'm gonna ask you one more question in this section and then we'll wrap it all up in this next one. So you've been freelancing now for You know, about the same time as I have, like 2022, probably even a little bit before. Now looking forward, what does the future look like for Kenneth Hendren?

Like, could be, you know, the rest of [00:40:00] 2024, could be past that or some, maybe some bigger picture goals. What's that kind of vision in your head looking like?

Kenneth Hendren: I love to keep going strong with my, uh, motion design freelance and, you know, continuing to work with the past clients that I have, but also branching out to new clients.

Um, but on top of that, I also want to get into more professional freelance. Music composition, sound design, and mixing. And as a side note, I've been doing that in my free time as, you know, a music producer, I've been producing my own electronic songs and mixing them down, doing sound design, music composition, all that good stuff.

So I'd really love to. Bring my skillset into the motion design world. And, you know, we obviously work with audio a lot, so it would be really cool to incorporate both of those in the coming months to years, however long it takes to, you know, add that to my freelance offerings.

EM: [00:41:00] How do you think you're going to go about marketing yourself as a mixer in addition to like motion design?

Kenneth Hendren: I'm personally going to be making some, uh, some personal projects in, in motion design. Um, and I'm going to be making my own music compositions and showing off, you know, not only my music composition chops, but my sound design. And mixing and kind of put that out into the world. And, um, with that, I can kind of send that to clients and be like, Hey, this is what I can do.

EM: Cool. And are you looking to try and have like a 50 50 split of motion design versus sound work?

Kenneth Hendren: I mean, yeah, one day that would be really cool if I could do 50 50 split. But for the time being, I'm sure it's going to be a gradual, you know, increase to that 50 50, right? So it's probably going to be like 99 percent motion design at first and 1 percent of that possibly.

And then we kind of build from there.

EM: And we all know how much impact audio has to a [00:42:00] motion piece or a video in general, right? You can have the prettiest visuals on the planet, but it's always going to be lacking like that texture or like that real substance that either great sound design. And or great music composition can add to it.

I think once you're able to like walk in those kind of projects with both mixing, like your, your visual chops and your design chops and mix that with your audio chops, that's gonna be a pretty sweet pairing. Like, I don't, I don't know too many people who have that exact kind of offering as compared to like, say, maybe people who do both just design and animation.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah. I mean, I think it's. Kind of like the perfect hobby to get into for motion design, because they obviously pair so well. And I would go as far as saying, like, I think motion design can be like 50 percent of the music and then 50 percent design and animation.

EM: Awesome. Hell yeah. So all right, Kenneth, like I, you know, I hope that next, you know, whatever the big picture goals of, of how that works out for you with audio and [00:43:00] sound and missing that with motion.

Like, I hope that, you know, goes well for you. I have no doubt that. Once you have some of those, you know, more passion projects out there, some more that work in your portfolio, people will see what you can do because I can personally vouch for you because we've worked on that one bank project together where you did the sound design and the music editing and it was amazing.

Like, I can't do that. So being able to work with someone in real time and see them do that is that was definitely a treat. So, uh, hopefully, uh, some more of those opportunities and projects, uh, you know, come to you in the future.

Kenneth Hendren: Well, thank you. Yeah, I, uh, I really love working on that project and just having the opportunity to do that.

And, you know, I guess, in a way, getting paid to partially do some sound design and, and mixing was just amazing. A dream come true. So yeah, I'd love to get on more projects like that in the future. But um, you know, I just got to keep putting more stuff out there, like you said, with the, with the personal work.

So yeah, I'm excited for that [00:44:00] and excited for the future.

EM: All right. This last little bit, I feel like we can just dive into personal work because I know we talked a little bit about it and you mentioned a little bit about it. Down here at the bottom. I'm sure all of us, myself included, and whoever's listening to this is excited to see what's next for you in the freelance realm and creativity and this career in general.

But before we wrap up this conversation, I would love to chat about another topic that is very common in our industry. Once you've been in it for a minute, is the concept of personal work, trying to make time, trying to find time and all those questions that surround it. Say, I guess kind of like checking in with you.

Do you have time to do personal work these days? Or how does that balance look like between that and client work for you?

Kenneth Hendren: It's, it's a tough balance, honestly. Client work has kept me quite busy the past few months. And so finding time to do personal work without burning myself out, that's And that's the [00:45:00] kind of an answer that I haven't quite figured out yet because I do value my free time and I value rest and I value hanging out with friends and loved ones.

Like I have never been in the mindset where I want a full day and then I want to. Work on a personal project for six hours. Like some people can do that and be happy and I root for them, but like, that's, I know I can't do that, right? Like I, I need more in my life than just personal work. But with all that being said, I have found ways to incorporate personal work in a more less intense way that I've kind of been experimenting with like these past few months that have been busy.

And you, you read Atomic Habits, right Kyle?

EM: Yeah. And we've chatted a little bit about it too. And from what I remember you telling me, like, I feel like you've been really putting it into action. I'm still in the, uh, the thought stage of thinking about putting it in action. [00:46:00] Yeah.

Kenneth Hendren: That's the first stage. Yeah.

EM: Yes. Yeah. Let us know like how that's been going for you. Like what, how have you been adapting actually here before we get into the ditty gritty of it, can you kind of relate to us what the atomic habits is? Like, is it like a structure or is it like a mindset?

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, it is a bit of both. I'd say atomic habits is a great book.

It kind of outlines how you can get into good habits and how you can get out of bad habits. And I'm not following it like verbatim, but I did pick up on a few things that has helped me stay into some habits as far as like personal work, which is like I bought a little habit calendar, which kind of goes back to the book.

It's basically I'll write down my habit. Let's say. After my shower, I'm going to jump on my computer and I'm going to mess around in Cinema 4D for like 15 minutes, right? Like, that's a daily habit and I check that off. So, that's kind of been like my method of doing personal work, breaking it down [00:47:00] to easy chunks around things that I like.

I am already doing so making espresso in the morning, taking a shower at night, waking up, you know, things that I'm doing already, you can kind of habit stack is what they talk about in the book. And so, for instance, like I said, I'll, I'll take a shower and then I can go over to my computer. Launch it, and then I'm going to create some kind of object in 3D, I'm gonna light it, texture it, as much as I can do in 15 minutes, and then press render.

And so, for me, like, I want to learn more 3D, it's just, like, so hard to do, in the sense that I'm doing 2D stuff in my day job, right? Like, I'm constantly busy, and I'll learn 3D and then a month goes by and I forgot what I learned because I wasn't practicing it daily. So this for me is like a personal project way to kind of get the, just to memorize [00:48:00] like all the shortcut keys.

Just getting more familiar with the program and just seeing it daily has been a huge help. And then if I'm doing personal work with my 2D stuff, I can do the same thing where I'm blocking out some time each day. Even if it's just like for one week where I know I have a more relaxed week. I won't commit to be like, Hey, I need to work on this eight hours every day.

So that, no, for me, that doesn't work.

EM: I think it's easy for people to like have that binging personality of, Oh, I'm just going to fuck up my whole life for a little bit. And I'm just going to switch everything around without any systems in place and try to tell themselves, Oh, I'm going to do this for eight hours a day.

Like you mentioned, and really think that's the only way to do it. When I feel like there's such an easier way, like given the system that you're adopting. It's easier, right? It's, I don't think anyone has that bandwidth to just like burn out like six to eight hours. We're using that figuratively, but to use like a big chunk of time, I just think they're going to do [00:49:00] that cold turkey or just like the flip of a switch.

I feel like the way that you're doing it is like you're building up this habit. So like one day, so when you do have that time, so you have like a, you know, an intentional break from work or you maybe even it's not intentional, it's like, Oh, I've already been doing this thing. I've already been in the C4D gym every day so far.

So it'd be really easy to PR or see what my PR is and cinema trying to adapt it to a gym analogy. But I think it's you're really setting yourself up for a success by keeping the muscles warm as opposed to, Oh, I'm gonna be in here for eight hours, but most of those eight hours are probably watching tutorials trying to figure out simple stuff you could have been doing this whole time.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, no, I totally agree. It's just like putting it into action is. Huge, I think, um, even if it is chunks out of your day, like not everyone can commit to four hours a day of personal work, but I think most people can commit to like 15 minutes or 30 minutes if you're pushing it. Um, [00:50:00] and so just having it in more bite sized chunks has worked for me as opposed to not doing any personal work and feeling bad about myself after I look back in the month and be like, wow.

I suck. I didn't do any personal work because I wasn't doing chunks of it. I was just waiting for a full day of work, which, you know, that could work for someone too. You don't need to follow 15 minutes a day. You can maybe just dedicate. One day and do 10 hours per week or something. I don't know.

EM: Yeah. No, it makes sense.

I mean, it has to be, uh, I think a system that works for you and a system that I think is repeatable. So then you can build into a routine or into your routine. Like you said, like habit sacking, I think is what you mentioned. Yeah. And I think maybe we're going full circle here as we're like wrapping up is yeah.

You were talking about how your first reel that you were making and how you were updating it, you were just putting bite sized little chunks in there to like improve it. You weren't trying to take on these big lofty personal [00:51:00] projects, trying to make your like magnum opus, essentially. I feel like you, I think those habits that you had back then, or at least those like, The desires to just make work and get it out there.

I feel like you're carrying some of that. This is like a therapy session, by the way. I feel like you're taking some of that and applying it now. And I feel like you're seeing the benefits of it because it's, yeah, I don't know. It's just cool to watch being at this like aerial view of, you know, you describing your journey is cool to see.

Cause I don't have stakes in this game. I'm like an unbiased third party. So I just get to like. I know I'm talking in circles a little bit, but it's like, it's cool to see the parallels.

Kenneth Hendren: Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Yeah, that's, no, thank you. That's, that's a cool callback right there. That's, I love that. Um, yeah, I guess it does go back to that in the sense of, I don't know, taking on a big project, like making your reel or it's very daunting, right?

Like you feel like you have to have all the clips ready and like, yeah, you can do it the way that I did it. Just like, as a clip comes [00:52:00] in that you like, just replace it with an older clip. And then now you have an improved reel, right, it's just doing bite sized things over time, it definitely adds up.

EM: That is a perfect place to bring us to a close.

Now, before we give the parting words for Your time here on the episode, is there any kind of last bit of insider advice that you'd like to share with the audience?

Kenneth Hendren: Motion design is cool, right? Motion design is nerdy. Um, if you're just starting out or if you've been in the industry for a while. Uh, reach out.

Talk to some cool people. Talk to some nerds. Yeah, just, uh, socialize. Be your genuine self. That's my parting words.

EM: Love it. I think you said it as clearly as you need it to be. Awesome. Kenneth, thank you so much for joining us. Before we let you go, where can people find your work? Where can people interact with you on the internet?

Yeah, I would love to hear.

Kenneth Hendren: I, my portfolio website is [00:53:00] kennethendren. com. You can reach out to me via email or LinkedIn, Instagram, it's all, I'll say my email is kenneth at kennethendron. com and you can search for me on LinkedIn. Let's connect. Yeah.

EM: Yeah. All right, Kenneth. Thank you so much for hanging out with us.

We'll link everything in the show notes so people can view your work and get in touch with you. And I think I could speak for all of us in saying that we look forward to seeing what's next for you. Yeah. Thanks again for hanging out with us for this conversation.

Kenneth Hendren: Yep. Thanks so much for having me, Kyle.

It's been an absolute blast and Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what you do next and hearing all these podcasts as they come out. So yeah, thanks again for having me. It's been a blast.

EM: I hope you were able to take something valuable away from our conversation today and relate to it in a way that can help you on your journey to becoming an [00:54:00] everyday motion designer. Thank you for being a fan of the show and please subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcasts.

You can follow the podcast on Instagram at everyday motion dot podcast. Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions, feedback, or any other way that you'd like to support the show. Today's music is brought to you by the artist Cosmonkey, and the song is titled Feel the Night. Also, I'd love to give a big shout out to Matthew Johnston for mixing today's episode, and another big shout out to a fellow motion designer, Maddie Alexander for editing the episode as well.

Thank you both so much. The show would not be possible without your help. Thank you once again for tuning in and we look forward to sharing our next conversation with you. Now let's kick it to the [00:55:00] music.