Everyday Motion: A podcast for the emerging motion designer

EM: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Everyday Motion Podcast, where we guide the emerging motion designer on their way to becoming an everyday motion designer. My name is Kyle Harter, and I'll be your host as I talk with these everyday motion designers. In this episode, I speak with 2D motion designer, animator, and illustrator, Kyle Harter.

Ilse Meijer. In our conversation, we talk about creating self initiated projects to break into the industry, having a creative outlet outside of motion design, attending industry festivals and conferences, and so much more. Now let's dive into our conversation with Ilse Meijer. Ilse, thank you so much for joining us today and talking with us.

Ilse Meijer: Thanks for having

EM: me. Yeah, of course. And, um, Ilse, before we get too deep into it, I know you're based in the Netherlands, but maybe for people who are from, you know, in Europe and know Netherlands a bit better than I do, where exactly in the Netherlands are you located?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, it's a city called Arnhem, which is closer to the German border.

Cool. [00:01:00] Awesome.

EM: Yeah, let's dive into it. So Ilse, we're going to kind of paint the picture here, kind of set up the scene. So please tell us, how did you get into motion design?

Ilse Meijer: I got into it a bit of a roundabout way, because when I started studying, I actually started with social work, which is way different than what I'm doing now.

Um, but I have to choose between something creative and something else that I liked. And I was like, there's no work in creative. So I'm going to go into social work. But after about half a year, we had a practical assignment, which did not go well. I think we could get about 40 points and I got maybe six.

And that's when I was like, okay, I didn't enjoy this anyway. Might as well just stop doing this. And after that, I wanted to go to school for graphic design. Um, so I signed up to art school. They didn't accept me, but wanted me to do this year before. Doing graphic design with all kinds of [00:02:00] arts, which I also didn't enjoy.

So then I found out there was this like a college degree that had a design in it as well. So I decided that maybe a college degree was better in my case than going to art school. And so I ended up doing communications and multimedia design. And in my third year, I did a semester called game. Where we got to design things in 3d, which I really enjoyed.

And while I was doing that, I was like, Oh, Hey, I want to do the Pixar kind of stuff. But of course, from the Netherlands, that's not very possible. And there wasn't a lot of work in 3d. So then. I thought maybe 2D could be nice and that's how I ended up going for 2D and when I graduated, I got a job at a small studio, uh, after about half a year of looking for a job.

And that's how I got into motion design.

EM: Awesome. Thank you so much. That helps a lot. [00:03:00] And I think it gives us a few different, uh, I guess, platforms to kind of jump off from there. So kind of going back to your time at, you know, university and deciding between, uh, you mentioned like art school and then. I'm going to a college for you mentioned.

It was multimedia. It was a multimedia design. And

Ilse Meijer: so I wanted to do either graphic design or social work at first.

EM: Right, right, right. Yeah. So you come into this creative pursuit, this creative journey, trying to find a career in it. I'm curious. So you said you had a choice between creative and social work.

What was it about going into the creative work that like clicked for you that made it be like, Oh, I should do this. Um, what was that reason for you?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, I think it was mostly probably my mental health, because if I would have gone the social work route, then I would have heard all these stories of people, of the things that are going wrong in their life.

And I tend to take that upon myself. [00:04:00] And so, uh, Like I've seen that with my dad, I guess, like he told me not too long ago that he would still be thinking about his clients, uh, when he went to bed. Cause he's a social worker too. And I feel like that would have been the case for me as well.

EM: Yeah, no, that's valid.

I could only imagine, especially you having that exposure from like a younger age and you kind of seeing it like in real time of like when you're going through your, uh, like your studies before. Yeah. Um, so we're shifting to the creative field. You mentioned there wasn't much work in 3D in the Netherlands.

And then, um, so that kind of, you gravitated towards 2D. What was like the kind of course load, like at college? Like, what were you interested in? What were some of these things that you were really kind of drawn to in the 2d side of things?

Ilse Meijer: Um, I did. All kinds of things. Cause we could choose our own semesters.

Um, at least while I was still studying this, um, course. [00:05:00] And so I started with web design or app design. And then after that I did interactive storytelling, which is more closer to what I'm doing now. And then I did the game. Semester and I think there were three semesters that we could use and I tried to find an internship that had animation in it because I didn't really learn it at school.

I did most of the learning on YouTube.

EM: Same same appreciate again all of this backstory because it helps really paint a picture of kind of how you know where you started like this origin story kind of, you know, The spot in time to like where you are now as a freelance motion designer. So you mentioned that you got an internship while you were still in college.

What, what was that experience like for you? And did you feel like it helped prep you for the industry? Cause I'm sure that's gotta be a hot topic with, you know, people doing internships, uh, even here, like in the U S that I've seen going through the [00:06:00] university system.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah. So the internship that I did when I graduated was at a place that was not an animation studio.

They just wanted the students to make a few animations for them, which I don't know in how far that really prepped me for the nurse for the industry.

EM: Yeah. Cause it seems like they were just trying to get free work out of you is,

Ilse Meijer: Oh, they paid me. Oh, Oh, okay. Yeah. It was a big internship. Yeah. Yeah,

EM: that was going to be a follow up question because it's at least when I was in school here, it was very common and maybe it still is to have unpaid internships.

So it's nice to hear that you had a paid, you had a paid experience.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah. I mean, they, they didn't pay what you normally get for a job, but they paid enough

EM: because I was still living

Ilse Meijer: at home.

EM: So, yeah. So yeah, expenses were lower. So like it kind of, you know, You know, made up for it a little bit.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah.[00:07:00]

EM: Awesome. Okay. You graduate, you're into the industry now. Yeah. What was, what was your experience like trying to land a job outside of? Uh, after graduation, like, were you able to find one kind of soon, or did it take some time?

Ilse Meijer: It took me about six months and it was pretty hard because my portfolio was definitely not at a level that most studios want you to be when you start working with them, even as a beginner.

And so while I was. Looking for a job, I decided to also work on my skills and I started a project called 24 frames a day where I animated one second every day. Yeah, that really helped me because in the end it did get me my job six months later.

EM: Cool. And I think we should definitely dive more into this because, you know, I think you saw a need, right?

You saw a need in your portfolio where, or maybe a. A gap and it's like where you, where you [00:08:00] were and where you wanted to be. So for this self initiated project, why did you pick one second a day as opposed to something maybe loftier and a bit bigger?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, mostly because it was, it felt like an easy thing to do, like one second every day.

It's not too much work, but then again, I did have to design everything. So it was a bit more than I thought.

EM: Sure. And were you just kind of coming to the desk fresh every day with, okay, I'm going to do one second. I have to think of the idea of the thing I'm going to make, design it, and then animate it.

Or did you kind of already have a list of ideas set up? Or how'd you, how'd you kind of go about that?

Ilse Meijer: Um, at the start, I would just kind of. Go to my desk and think, what can I make? Um, but after a while I noticed that it was really hard to come up with something. So I would do weekly themes like walk cycles or certain color palettes.

Um, which really helped. [00:09:00]

EM: Cool. And I'm sure that had to help kind of like keep, uh, like a structure of some sort. And it kind of takes the, uh, I would assume it takes the decision making or the potential decision fatigue where you're trying to, like, choose everything at once, all the things that could get in the way of actually making a project.

So were you, were you trying to just, like, make cool stuff or, like, did you have, like, kind of like an idea of, I know you mentioned walk cycles and everything, but were you focusing on, like, specific animation principles or what was the mindset there?

Ilse Meijer: It was not a specific principles or anything. It was mostly just trying to get some more experience in the field.

And for me, that would be looking at Skillshare classes and then taking that and making into a week theme or YouTube tutorials. And sometimes I would just do whatever I felt like.

EM: Cool. I love that. All right. So yeah, you met, you're making this into like your own little project [00:10:00] and obviously it's, it would grow into.

Filling out your portfolio. What, what was the response of these different companies that were looking at your portfolio after it, after you developed it a bit more when you were looking for these jobs?

Ilse Meijer: Most studios really didn't reply to it. It was just the, the last studio that I had contact with that I ended up working with.

They were. Really happy to see that I was developing my skill every day and they had an intern who also did a similar project, but with self portraits. Um, so it was like this thing that they really liked people to do, I guess.

EM: Yeah, I could see that too. Cause you know, coming from, or I'm trying to put myself in the, The shoes of a studio owner or company owner.

And I think it's unfair if you expect students coming out of university to be like, you know, how these crazy developed portfolios, um, cause they [00:11:00] just might not just have the years of experience. Cause a university time is very short and it's very chaotic and you have to do so much. I think you taking that on and just showing that you're committed to the practice.

You took it upon yourself to make a project for yourself. I think those embody, like, really valuable hiring, I guess, attributes that a, uh, studio head or company head would seek, and they're like entry level employees. So, wrapping that up a little bit and, like, looking back, what is some, I guess, advice or maybe some insight you would give to these newer artists if they're kind of struggling to build that portfolio out and, To show that they have the skills because maybe they can use the tools really well, but maybe they just don't have the work yet to get the work.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah, so the most important thing is to make it doable. So don't make like a huge project that you will never finish. So like small, short projects to fill up your reel, for example, or. See if there's someone who wants to [00:12:00] collaborate with you because that's the way that it's easier to finish projects because you'll have someone that you're accountable to.

EM: No, I think, I think that's great advice because I think a lot of our friends and, um, and both of us now still, you know, collaborate with other friends to get personal projects and passion projects done because. You know, we can only, we only have so many hours in the day and we're only good at, you know, X, Y and Z.

But I think other people just also like collaborating and they can help fill in that void. So great. Okay. So you got the job at the studio. Uh, and I know we talked in the pre interview questions and a little bit about this before, but what was, what was that like coming out of school into a studio environment?

Like we're, You had, you were in this university environment, you know, you had classes, you had this, uh, class course schedule and everything and your internship that now you're in the real world and you have a studio job. What were you so excited about exactly? And working at the studio?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, it was [00:13:00] just that I would be able to speak to peers and learn from the people that were better than me and that I was actually earning money.

With art, because I think it, it is basically art.

EM: Yeah. For me, I call it for myself, like validation of, Oh, cool. I proved to myself and I proved to probably my parents and who else like, Oh, I can make money doing this. It's not just like a lofty goal, trying to make money in the arts. Awesome. Okay, cool. So you're at the studio, you're getting paid to make art, um, coming out of university, but you also mentioned you were really excited to, you know, connect with some peers, especially ones who are more experienced than you.

More years in the industry. What was that kind of like for you there? Like, did you find it easy to connect with others that, um, like in a studio environment or like was was a little bit scary or yeah, I'd love to hear what that was like for you.

Ilse Meijer: Oh, it was definitely scary. I was a young person who was scared to meet new people.

So that was, [00:14:00] um, it was scary, but it was also very exciting for me to get to know people. That we're doing what I wanted to do and they were very nice to me. So it was always like within a week I felt at home, which I really appreciate it.

EM: Yeah, I bet it because you know, coming into it as a entry level artist is like.

I'm sure the imposter syndrome had to be like creeping in the, you know, identity crisis, just trying to figure out like where the, um, I don't know where to sit. Um, what were some things that you feel like you really benefited from, like the experience of when you were first getting started there?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, mostly being around people who knew what they were doing and getting to ask them questions and getting feedback on my work, I think that was the most important thing.

EM: As you're coming into this stage of, you know, your motion design career, like, uh, what were some of these moments that you felt like you were actually getting a hold? Of [00:15:00] doing motion design professionally.

Ilse Meijer: I think it was probably like a year in, I don't know exactly the timeline, but it was at a point where I was doing my projects or at least the animation all by myself because at the studio, I was just doing animation and no, Illustration or design.

And at some point, they just let me do whatever I well, let me animate the whole thing. Uh, and I wouldn't need much changing in a project.

EM: That's cool. Okay. So that that had to be, uh, I would assume a really empowering feeling. So when you first started, you were just doing animation. At what point were you also doing illustration and design as well?

Ilse Meijer: Actually at the start, um, but we found out that it would work better for me if there was another illustrator in the, in the business, uh, in, in the company. So after a while I just started working with him, which was really nice. Cause I, cause I could just focus [00:16:00] on. Developing my animation skills. And I think the illustration bit just came on when I started freelancing, not very much while I was at the studio.

EM: Cool. Okay. So it's, it's always exciting to hear these journeys of different artists that, that I've come to know over the years, because I feel like we all had like similar experiences and when things kind of like just clicked and like you mentioned, you didn't need much help. Any more in terms of doing your animations or you could do an entire video on your own on the animation side or and you're doing more illustration to thinking about ways how this could help other motion designers coming fresh into the industry.

What are some insights you could offer them or maybe even just some perspective on getting into that first studio like once you're there, what are some ways that they could acclimate in a way that is both beneficial to them and maybe make it a little bit less of a scary transition.

Ilse Meijer: First of all, [00:17:00] Very good to get to know your colleagues.

Um, because if you have a good relationship with them, then it will be easier to ask questions. Um, and questions are super important to ask because if you don't, then your work will just get back to you. And it could have gone way faster than it will have if you didn't ask the questions and just made whatever.

EM: Totally. No, that's super helpful, uh, advice. Because I think connecting with your peers at, um. Your first job is paramount to how you're going to carry on building relationships after that point, if you leave, or if you, even if you don't leave and they're really not that scary in the end, they might appear scary because.

They just know what they're doing, but I like how you're approaching it by asking questions, getting to know them and getting feedback on your work, trying to elevate it. I think it's all helpful for these emerging motion designers as they transition into the professional side of the industry. [00:18:00] Um, so transitioning from there to our, uh, next topic, I know you're at the studio for a while and then you shifted into freelance.

So as you were coming into the Uh, side of things, like what was that transition like for you going into freelance from being full time previously?

Ilse Meijer: I think going freelance is the one thing that COVID brought me, because I was working at home anyway. Um, so it was way less scary for me to go freelance and sit behind my desk all day.

Cause I wasn't home, home on my own. I had my cat there and my boyfriend and we were already used to being there. Because of the pandemic,

EM: right? I find that to be such a wild time when either people first came out of school during the pandemic, or if they went freelance right around the pandemic time, because there's no other thing that's happened in recent history.

I think that is [00:19:00] that you could compare it to. So you're already working from um, Remote working from home, I guess I've never really asked anyone this in terms of the pandemic side of things. But how was that for you having to go work from home after, you know, you talked about, um, you know, Building relationships with your coworkers and getting to know them.

But then, you know, we kind of had a, a lot of us or all of us had to go into isolation mostly. So what was the, what was that process for you? Like,

Ilse Meijer: Uh, it was from one day to the next. All of a sudden they were like, you need to stay home. We're bringing your computer to you and you're going to have to work from home, which felt really unreal.

Yeah.

EM: Yeah. Well, um, did you feel like that you had to. Uh, they had a hard time like turning off like the work side after the end of the day because the computer was still there or, uh, were you able to shut things off and separate it pretty easily? [00:20:00]

Ilse Meijer: I was pretty lucky because I already had my own space. To do my own thing, like an office, um, so I just have my desk put there and then at the end of the day I would close the door and go do my own thing.

EM: Cool. Awesome. Yeah, I know some people were like crammed in like super small apartments trying to make that work. Very fortunate that you had a, an extra space there. So, okay. Going into freelance during this time, I know it was pretty surreal and trying to take it one day at a time. Like what were some of your first clients like, uh, or what kind of projects were you getting right off the bat?

Ilse Meijer: So I took some time for myself at the start of freelance and I didn't really have a, Uh, a network. I only knew the people that were at my job. Um, so I really had to start building my network on LinkedIn, for example. And my first project came from someone who works at my [00:21:00] boyfriend's office. Um, they needed a logo animation.

And so he contacted me cause he saw my message on LinkedIn that I was open for new work. And after that, I think I had a longer booking in summer, which was Mostly graph animations. So not the most exciting thing, but it was good enough.

EM: Yeah, it pays the bills.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah,

EM: cool. Okay. So I mean, that's got to be, that's got to be pretty nifty to, you know, take some time for yourself to rest.

And then, and then you're able to find these projects through, like I said, your, uh, your boyfriend's coworker. And then you got another booking after that. During this time, too, of like freelancing, did you already have an idea like what kind of work you really wanted to work on or what kind of projects you really wanted to take on from either client side or I guess even a personal project side, too?

Ilse Meijer: At that moment, I just wanted diversity in my work because at the studio, I was doing basically [00:22:00] only explainer videos. So it's very Much of the same work the whole time.

EM: I know. I totally get that. I came from like a, an explainer video factory of sorts. And so it's like there, I still have a soft spot for them because, you know, there's a formula to them and most of the time they're pretty straightforward and you can make really good money off of them.

But. You do the same thing for a few years, and it's every day, and it's, uh, it weighs on you quite a bit

Ilse Meijer: differently. Yeah.

EM: Yeah. So, you know, now that you've had some more time in freelance and you can reflect back more on the time, just your entire stand in the industry. What are you wanting out of a career in motion design?

I realized I don't ask enough people this question because, you know, if we're embarking on a career in this, we probably should have some way of an idea of what we want out of this. So yeah. You'll say, well, what would you like out of a career in motion design?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, I want to tell stories and mostly ones [00:23:00] that have social impacts, um, which is something that's really important in my life.

So I'm hoping to pull that into my work as well in the future.

EM: That's really cool. Cause you started out pursuing social work and. Like when you had that time between your social work as a central career and then going to the creative field, like, did you feel like you had to choose either or and that you couldn't really pair them?

I

Ilse Meijer: guess I did. Yeah.

EM: Yeah. I think maybe I'm just seeing it now because, uh, from our conversation, I think that there is a lot more opportunity now, I think, to, I guess, like, to have to work on projects like that. And I've seen some people there's like some like high profile names. Like I know like Sondra van Dyke has been able to do that for himself and some other ones too.

Are there any type of a specific social causes that that you feel pretty passionate about that you'd like to tell more stories about through? Animation and illustration

Ilse Meijer: for me, it's plastics, [00:24:00] racism, environmental stuff, all kinds of things.

EM: I mean, obviously very important topics to that. I feel like storytelling could help a lot in.

So, you know what this direction looks like in terms of like types of projects you would like, love to work on, would love to get paid for the stories you want to tell. How, how'd you find this direction? Because hearing you say that so confidently, it's like, Oh. Like, I feel like Ilse has probably been thinking about this for a while.

How did you kind of find this direction for yourself?

Ilse Meijer: I've been doing a lot of social paid ads over the past few years. And I noticed that I wasn't like, it's fun, but it's not really bringing the world something. Um, and I feel like making impact on the world is something that's very important to me. Um, so I've been really thinking about how I can phrase it for a few months.

And I think. Like maybe a month ago or something, I decided that [00:25:00] this is what I'm going to say. I want to make social impact with my work.

EM: Wow. And it's so clear too. And I feel like you're not just, you're not just limiting yourself to, Like motion design or animation, which I think is powerful because you have not only do you have like these creative skill sets, but I feel like you as a human have all these other ways of being able to help with the social impact.

What are some ways that these emerging motion designers can go about to maybe like build a direction for themselves? Cause. It's unfair to expect them to figure out the direction right when they graduate if they're graduating from school because they haven't experienced much life yet in the grand scheme of things.

What would you kind of bestow upon them to think about of just figuring out your direction with where you want to take your career? I

Ilse Meijer: think it's most important to look at what you enjoy doing. Like if you have any hobbies or anything in your life that is important and that you want to tell stories about.

Because For example, I think Kelly is going to be on the podcast as [00:26:00] well. And she has found this niche of people who do snowboarding, I think. And it's also very much what she enjoys doing, um, which then comes back in her work. And I think it's the best thing when that happens because then you really enjoy Most of your work instead of just a part of your work, like you enjoy the story that you're talking about.

EM: Totally. And, uh, I love that too, that you're able to, you know, when people are able to pair those things that they love doing and, you know, obviously getting paid for it using some kind of creative skill set to do it as well. Um, like that's really amazing when that happens. I know there's, there's some camps of people who.

Like to keep everything completely separate of like, Hey, this is my personal life, my interests, my causes. I believe in, uh, you know, all of that more personal life stuff stays in one bin and the other band is, Hey, I go to work. I work, I don't know, nine to five or I work my day job and that's it. [00:27:00] And I can separate them.

I find that in the creative industry, there's so much overlap in boats. Uh, I know we haven't really talked about this too much, but maybe if you had, uh, some thoughts on it of the more I think about it, it's like, we are always on, right. We're always thinking we're always, if we're watching TV or watching movies, do you see ads, we see some kind of animation or some kind of design or illustration Some component like that.

Are you able to kind of like turn your brain off when it comes to like some of that stuff like day in day out? Or are you just always on and thriving?

Ilse Meijer: I'm learning how to not think about work when I'm done working,

EM: which is

Ilse Meijer: really difficult.

EM: Very. Oh, my God. No, I now after years in the industry, I think a lot of us are, we know it's tough and we're able to like, I take action in a way.

And they try to put things into practice of try to stop [00:28:00] doing that. I could imagine as like someone who's first starting out being like, I gotta get a job. I gotta pay rent. I gotta pay if they have student loans or I have Debt I have to live my life, like all these different concerns, which could obviously affect their mental health.

What, what are some ways that you're trying to approach this now and trying to just not think about work?

Ilse Meijer: I'm trying to be positive. And when I go downstairs from my studio, I try to do things that don't have to do with work. Because I feel like a lot of times people will be like, you need to do your personal work when you're off work.

But it's also good to just. Do nothing for a little bit and let everything. Sit in your brain and look at boring TV shows or go for a walk outside.

EM: Oh, yeah, because I think it's really helpful, like you mentioned, like when you left from your studio to go downstairs, like [00:29:00] having some kind of separate, like physical separation of space from where, like the work is done and in your home.

I know not everyone can afford Like that space, depending on your living situation, but you taking that extra step mentioning, like going on these walks, trying to do anything that's not work related. And I know you've shared this with our group quite a lot, but you like to do pottery. Like something that there's no, there's no screen involved.

Um, yeah, and it seems like you really enjoy it too. Like how, how'd you kind of get into that and turn your brain off of the, uh, work side of things?

Ilse Meijer: I, because I think it's mostly because of the hype around pottery that A few years ago, I think maybe four years ago already, I was like, okay, I'm gonna try a wheel throwing class, which I did for about one and a half year, but my body is not really made for this kind of thing.

with the wheel because it's very hard on your hands. [00:30:00] Um, so a few years ago, I found this artist called Nastya Kalaka and she does these amazing sculptures of characters that are animals. And she had a domestica course. But I found out that she's actually living in my country. Oh, and then I was like, okay, I need to go to her and not do the online course.

Cause how will I have my stuff based?

EM: Right. Right.

Ilse Meijer: Yeah. So I went there. Yeah, one and a half year ago now, and I did my first course with her. And then earlier this year, I did another one and I'm hoping to do some more at home as well, because it's really fun. And she does hand building. So you just make some slabs and you.

Turn it into the shape you want.

EM: Wow. Okay. And that's like, what's that feeling like for you, like being able to work more with your hands, not, you know, pushing key frames around or moving pixels and being able to actually [00:31:00] interact with, um, I don't know too much about pottery. Is it clay that you're molding?

Yeah. What, what does that like for you being able to work with your hands in a different capacity?

Ilse Meijer: It's really calming and relaxing. It's, it really is good for the brain in my opinion. Yeah.

EM: Yeah. Cool. And, you know, you're enjoying it. Like, and I can tell, I can just tell by how you talk about it that you're enjoying, uh, just this outlet.

Um, I'm sure I know you have plenty of outlets from getting away from work. What are some ways that these emerging motion designers can, I guess, give themselves permission to take on a hobby like this? And when they, when they're weighed down by the, I guess, the obligations that they need. Put on themselves and they kind of have to take on.

Ilse Meijer: I think that it's good to know that it's very important to have your thing outside of work. Um, because if you keep just doing your work and nothing else, then life does become a bit boring, but [00:32:00] also very. Your work is very intense and it's all you do. So I think it's something you have to do for yourself doing something else that will also give you energy and more experiences to draw from with your work.

EM: Oh yeah. It's like. Amazing advice. Because it's like, obviously your intention for doing it is not just to improve your work. That's a nice little bonus that that comes from it. But I think you were just saying to you like you're if you if all you think about is your work and then as like a like first or second priority, then I feel like life is going to be very boring or very intense.

And it's just a lot of stress that can come from that. And on the, you know, I know we've been like kind of circling around this topic quite a bit of, um, you know, mental health and like taking care of yourself. Um, and you've taken time to rest yourself over the past couple of years in different stints, which, uh, it's very admirable.

You know, I feel [00:33:00] like you've been a great, I guess, like role model in a way. Uh, if that's okay, me calling you a role model, cause I have a hard time taking rest myself. Like I know when to rest like with, uh, boundaries, like for the work day and stuff like that. But you were taking it. Extended time off, you know, what, what was that like for you and taking this rest and really taking time to, to recuperate from like busy seasons of a freelance life.

Ilse Meijer: It was really nice. I just got to enjoy the weather in the summer, sit outside in my garden and I have a few bits where I grow vegetables as well. So I was just enjoying that and not thinking about my work too much, which I think is also. I'm very privileged that I got to do this because I know a lot of people are having a difficult difficult time getting jobs and saving up money to actually do this kind of thing.

But then again, I feel like freelancing is a perfect [00:34:00] Thing in this case, because if you get enough jobs, then you save up money and after a while you can say, Hey, I'm taking off for a few months and doing whatever I feel like, uh, which I think more people should do when they're, when they're able to.

EM: Totally. And you're right. You know, not everyone can, whatever, whatever life. situation that they're in. But if you do have the opportunity or even like prioritize it for yourself like you did, because I feel like if you don't like take care of yourself and prioritize that rest, then you have a one way ticket to burnout.

And like, I know myself, I've experienced that in different bouts. Throughout my career, but I was never able to take rest. I still had to show up for the salary job. I still had to perform and produce work, but, you know, seeing examples like yourself, take this rest and really prioritize it to just take care of yourself.

I guess it's the best way [00:35:00] to put it because it's not like to just improve, improve yourself or whatever. I feel like that that's kind of like a byproduct, but you're really trying to just take care of yourself because there is more to life. Then work as a and, you know, if we're trying to like think of ways to prepare for the future times of when rest is needed, uh, before things just get a little too intense.

What do you think are some ways that these artists can prepare for the future? And I mean, maybe a lot of it's more financial in terms of. And maybe it might just be more freelance too, or I, I don't know, but I'm curious to hear from your thoughts on what are some ways that we can go about preparing ourselves for times of rest and not just doing it when we're just like all of our energy is expended and we're just burned out.

Ilse Meijer: I think it's important to learn what your boundaries are, because when you know your boundaries, you can actually know When it's going to be too much and then stop before it becomes too [00:36:00] much. I think that's most important.

EM: That's like a great blanket statement. I relate to from, you know, even from the early years, because I think it's, Easy now, or it's easy when you're first starting out to just be thrown into the ringer at a company or a studio.

And it's like, it's like, Oh, they can just sometimes take advantage of you. Uh, if you're not careful, uh, obviously if they're just not a very great studio, I've worked at a few of those when I first started out and it just. It wasn't a great environment. So I think even putting boundaries and when you're first starting out is a great practice to when you're like when we're freelancing like this, because now it's on you to put those boundaries and and like if a client is coming to you and said, Oh, can you update this?

And, uh, like at nighttime, like after, say, six p. m. or whatever your cut off time is and like, can you update this real quick? And, uh, I think that that would be an example of. Boundary setting right [00:37:00] of like, no, I think you would set that from the beginning. Like I know I don't work after six p. m. Um, I'm I'm very clear in that, especially in my when I talk with people is I don't work after certain times.

Um, and I don't work after the contract is done with. I feel like you don't have to. I feel like there can be a common maybe mindset or or some kind of common belief that, um, like you owe clients something other than what you promise in a contract. I know I'm kind of going a bit off tangent, but I would think that some people could probably relate to that as well as like you don't.

You don't really owe anyone anything other than what is stated or other than what you signed your name to thank you for sharing your mindset and your thoughts towards taking rest really prioritizing that and kind of wanted to shift topic to this last bit before before we close out the conversation.

But, um, so you went to Pictoplasma recently in [00:38:00] Germany, right? Um, and this is one topic that I have not talked with anyone on the episode other than alluding to other conferences. But yeah, the topic of motion, not even just motion, creative conferences as a professional. So before we get into those nuances, what is Pictoplasma?

How was it? Yeah, we'd love to hear all about it.

Ilse Meijer: Uh, so Pixel Plasma is a conference all about character design and the speakers are of all kinds of disciplines. So there's a ceramicist or there was a wood maker, like someone who makes toys out of wood, like all kinds of stuff, which I think is really fun because usually we're just speaking to our own little bubble of animators or illustrators.

Um, and it's always really nice to see how people. Use character in the work outside of what we do.

EM: Yeah. And for someone who has not been to a creative conference before, what happens at these [00:39:00] conferences? I know I'm kind of going super basic, but I talked to some younger, younger and experienced motion designers about, they have no idea what happens at these.

Cause sometimes they're only a couple of days. Sometimes they're one day or a whole week. So what were some of the events that, uh, that happened there and which ones did you kind of gravitate towards the most?

Ilse Meijer: So they usually. Open the festival with a meet and greet, which is like, um, which is where you have drinks with people that are visiting the conference, um, which is a great way to meet new people as well.

And they always have weird stuff happening. Um, like you could decorate a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah. fake cake, um, cause they had their 20th year of pictoplasma this year. Yeah. So they also had a piñata of one of the characters, like the, the Yeti, that is their main character for the conference. Um, so people could hit that.

And then [00:40:00] the one that. Got it open one, like, um, I think an entrance tickets to one of the future pictoplasmas, which is great. And last year they also had like a cereal thing where you could meet new people over cereal. It's. Kind of weird, but I love it.

EM: Yeah. It's like something, uh, kind of like not too much pressure.

It's over breakfast. It's not like you're at a bar trying to talk to someone over loud music kind of deal, but it's like, you just kind of, do you just go up to random people that you see and have breakfast with them or have cereal with them or what's the structure like there?

Ilse Meijer: Uh, I didn't do it cause I don't like cereal.

From what I heard, you just went into the room and they, maybe they assigned you a table. And you got a bowl of cereal and the person across from you as well, and that's how you got into contact with them.

EM: Cool. Okay. So, you know, what I [00:41:00] kind of gather from that is they put on these conferences, um, these different ones, whether it's Pictoplasma, Dash Bash, and the small parts of like, uh, NAB and, um, Adobe Max and other ones.

But, you know, they put these on to attract, All these artists, all these creatives, it could be discipline specific, obviously picked as a bit more, uh, expansive, but I like how they're set. They set up these activities for people of all types, all different kinds of, uh, like social engagement types. Like some are introverts, some are extroverts, and some help bring people out of their shells.

And, you know, I like the abundance of these types of activities, like yourself, you didn't like cereal, so you didn't do it, but I'm assuming, I guess it might be fair to ask, like, did you feel like that you had FOMO or like, did you feel that you were like left out because you couldn't go to this one activity?

Ilse Meijer: No, not at all. There was enough to do

EM: exactly as that's what I was thinking is like, [00:42:00] I think they do a really good job of scheduling these and with all these different amount of activities. So, and you've been to a few of these in the past. Um, uh, I think you said, was this your first picto, but you've been to, uh, even to some other ones in the past.

Ilse Meijer: This was my second picto. Um, yeah, it may be good to know, like in the mornings they have screenings of short films and then in the afternoon is the conference. So you get to hear artists talk and usually they have a workshop going as well the whole day or the whole afternoon. And Pecha Kuchas, which is people get to give a speech on stage that are like, it's an attendee stage, um, which are 20 slides of 20 seconds, which is about six minutes.

And it's really fun because at the Pecha Kucha, you get to see a different, like a whole range of people instead of The speakers who do like a longer talk as well, um, the shorter talks, [00:43:00] they really have to put everything in there that they want to say, which I think is maybe even more fun than the big people on stage.

EM: Totally. I think it makes it a bit more, uh, interactive. And, and, I could see there being an air of like maybe being able to be a bit more relatable because I know when I say that as like when I went to dash bash, there was obviously these motion design famous people on stage, very talented, very nice, even to talk to you at the mixer type activities, but I kind of still saw them as like, Oh, you're still on a pedestal of sorts that like I'm either never going to be at or Maybe just not there yet, which is fine, but it's like, oh, it's there's still some kind of disconnect.

But the idea of having this and I think that's just like the standard way of doing conferences and what not for any industry. But I like this way of like having it attendee focused of putting people on stage and talking about, you know, Like whatever they want to [00:44:00] talk about, uh, our friend Gordon, he, I know he did one.

Uh, is that Petra Kucha is how you pronounce it? And by the time this, uh, episode comes out, uh, his short film that he talked about will be out. So I guess like we're talking about picto specifically, but, I like that these different conferences have these different ways of getting engagement from the people that attend and it's not like you're just going up there to watch people talk.

There's all these different ways to talk with people in the community and get to know people.

Ilse Meijer: And I think that's the most fun thing about Pictou that it's very people focused. So, Like I've been to the art department, for example, by, uh, playgrounds. And I really feel like the people there go in their own groups and don't feel like meeting new people where at Pictoplasma, everyone is opening open to new people, uh, or to meeting new people.

And I really enjoy that because if you go alone, like one of my friends, she will [00:45:00] probably walk up to you and say, Hey, and introduce you to some new people. Cause. It's just something that, yeah, people just really like meeting other creatives at this event, which I haven't felt like this before.

EM: Wow, that's amazing because it can be overwhelming, like when it just, there's so much going on.

There's, Yeah, that, so it's cool to hear that picto gives that space for people to feel like it's not as clicky, I guess. And it's a bit more, um, it's a bit easier to connect with people in some ways. So I know we heard about your experience here, which is awesome. Cause now I really want to go to Berlin and go to pick those.

It's I know, cause I know it's so hard for like, especially for people in Europe to come to the U S just for like a two or three day conference and vice versa. So. I'll have to make maybe a longer trip out of it or something, but coming from the perspective of these, uh, newer artists, these emerging motion designers and [00:46:00] say, they're trying to, they're trying to debate on, uh, say, and say, for this example, the scenario that the conferences are in, they're, they're accessible for them.

They can fly to them within their own country and, or, you know, it's easier for them to get to then trying to go across the overseas. All that being said. You know, they're trying to debate, okay, should I spend the money on this? And if so, what do I do at this conference? Like, do I bring business cards? Do I have to go talk to everyone?

Like, how do I get my best value out of this and still have a good time? What are your kind of thoughts on that?

Ilse Meijer: For me, it was mostly like a lot of people on that. I follow on Instagram, we're going to pixel plasma. So I just send them a message when they announce it in their stories, like, Hey, it would be nice to meet.

And then I have this connection with them and they'll remember my name most of the time. Uh, so then I'll be able to walk up to them and say, Hey, I'm Ilse. Uh, I sent you a message on Instagram. Would be [00:47:00] nice to speak to you. And they usually really like this. Um, and for PictoPlasma, a really big thing is stickers.

Most people have a stack of stickers with them, or at least a lot of people. And whenever they need meet new people, they'll give each other a sticker, which is, I think nicer than a, like a usual business card is like a business card, but different, it usually only has like your Instagram handle or your, um, website on it.

EM: Yeah, that's, I mean, I agree with you. That is way better than a business card. And for the record, I, uh, my wife and I have some of Ilsa's stickers that, uh, you sent us at Christmas time. And so I've, I've, I've peppered, uh, my notebooks with them. And then my wife, I think she put them on her notebook as well, but yeah, sorry.

Little side tangent. So like, so the sticker thing when meeting other people, and I like how you mentioned Reaching out to people ahead of time, kind of putting yourself out there and, you know, say when they're at the conference, you [00:48:00] know, say maybe they saw some of the people, but maybe they're a little scared to go up and and say, hi, you know, for whatever reason, could be imposter syndrome, just anxiety, anything of that nature, I guess, what are some ways that we could reassure them that it's not, you know, It's not as scary as it might be in their head of going to talk to these people.

Ilse Meijer: I think most people have imposter syndrome in our industry. And I think that's a good thing to know. Like everyone thinks that their, that your work is better than theirs, or at least that their work is not good enough. And next to that, uh, people are really kind in our industry. I think that's, Pretty unique people from really high up are excited to meet people who are new in the industry and they love it when they speak to them.

So it's totally fine to say hi. Um, cause if they don't want to speak to you, you'll notice at some point and you can just go to someone else and say, Hey, and there will definitely be someone who enjoys speaking to [00:49:00] you.

EM: I think you, you put that perfectly. Cause it's like, I think a lot of times, uh, I, um, Talking from my own experiences, we think that at least I think that, okay, why would this person want to spend a second talking to me when they could be talking to this other person who is better, whatever, insert any kind of adjective you want to make me feel less about myself, but I think you phrased it in a helpful way of like, these people want to meet other people to despite, or it doesn't even matter whether they're, you know, Interns at a company or whether they're just coming into the industry or even if they've been in for 20 years or something, I feel like everything you've talked about with Pictou, and I guess it seems like your ideal conference experience is people just want to connect.

People want to talk to other creatives. I think if, if they were to take your advice there and kind of embody that for themselves, they could have a really valuable conference experience. And I think I would add to that, give yourself time to [00:50:00] recover, like mentally, it's, you're going to be talking so much and then you're not going to realize it till the end of the day that you just like talked all day and your social battery is drained like completely.

So, uh, I think you mentioned like you took some, you took like some, uh, much needed breaks just to make sure that you could. Like be yourself when you're out and about and not just like a shell of a human being.

Ilse Meijer: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I feel like a lot of people were very tired at the end of the conference, especially they also have a character Academy, which they run five days prior to the conference.

And one of my friends did it. She was already very tired when the conference started. So I admire her for Getting through all of it.

EM: Wow. That's amazing. I don't know how anyone could do that. I'm sure they got a lot of value out of it. Your friend. Yeah, that's amazing. Awesome. Okay, you'll say this has been an amazing conversation.

I really appreciate your [00:51:00] time. I appreciate your insights, sharing your experiences, being very transparent, you know, before we kind of wrap this conversation up, any kind of last insights or advice. Uh, just general advice you'd like to give to these emerging motion designers.

Ilse Meijer: I think going off this, this whole conversation, I think an important thing is to stay in contact with your peers and don't be afraid to say hi to people you admire, tell them that you love their work.

And I think that could really help you. In your career, but also your personal life.

EM: I couldn't agree more. That was that was perfect. Also, thank you so much. And yes, where can people find you online? Where can they connect with you and get to learn a little bit more about you?

Ilse Meijer: My website is ilsemeijer. nl.

And on Instagram, you can find me at ilseustrator. And of course, I also have LinkedIn if you want to connect there.

EM: Perfect. And of course, we will link everything. And [00:52:00] I am so happy that I know how to pronounce your Instagram handle now, uh, and I think it's way better how you pronounce it than what was in my head.

This is awesome. Uh, you'll say thank you again so much for your time and we look forward to the next time we get to chat with you. Awesome. Thanks. I want to thank Ilse Meijer so much for chatting with us today. If you'd like to check out more of her work, take a look at the show notes for her portfolio, and I definitely recommend to connect with her further from there.

I hope you were able to take something valuable away from our conversation today and relate to it in a way that can help you on your journey to becoming an everyday motion designer. Thank you for being a fan of the show, and please subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can follow the podcast on Instagram at everydaymotion.

podcast. Don't hesitate to reach out with any questions, feedback, or any other way that you'd like to support the show. Today's music is brought to you by the artist Cosmonkey, and the song is titled Feel the Night. Also, I'd love to give a big shout [00:53:00] out to Matthew Johnston for mixing today's episode. And another big shout out to a fellow motion designer, Maddie Alexander, for editing the episode as well.

Thank you both so much. The show would not be possible without your help. Thank you once again for tuning in, and we look forward to sharing our next conversation with you. Now let's kick it to the music.